Doom 3 & Athiesm

I was just wondering, being an athiest, and not believing in Hell and such, if it effected any other athiests out there. I know when I was playing through, I was glad that I found out that Hell and such was just some ancient, advanced civilization and that the forces Heaven was a talking box with razors on it. This appealed to me a lot, since I didn't really enjoy the "religous" part the game had.

If there are any other athiests out there, do/did you feel the same?

what does this have to do with atheism

I am an athiest, and I refuse to play this game, simply because it has a version of Hell in it.

I'm an atheist, but for Doom's sake, I'll believe Hell is as real, and kick-ass as the game portrays.

Please don't take what I say seriously, it's just my two cents.

WORST THREAD EVER.

Hell, I don't care if hell and demons are in this game. I only play FPS and I'm a pacific guy. It's only a game.

I'm an atheist, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be totally closed-minded and not enjoy the game just because it contains stuff about Hell. That would be like not believing in the existence of extra-terrestrial life, and thus forcing yourself to not watch any movies or play any games containing aliens. It's just dumb. It's obviously not real, it's obviously for fun, so take it in your stride and enjoy the game already. :P

And now for pendanticisms sake...

Verdale said:

I was glad that I found out that Hell and such was just some ancient, advanced civilization and that the forces Heaven was a talking box with razors on it.

Wrong. Hell in Doom 3 was Hell. An entirely seperate dimension, accessible only through the teleporters, and filled with demons, souls, all the good stuff. No Devil/Satan figure (I don't think the Cyberdemon counts), because that's not really Dooms thing, but it was undeniably meant to be the place bad people are supposed to go when they die.
The ancient civilisation you speak of were Martians. They lived on Mars, and built various structures there, such as temples, thousands of years ago. These are the last levels - Caverns 1, 2 and the Primary Excavation Site. This civilisation is comparable to ours - as in the Demons attacked it, from hell.
The Soul Cube has nothing to do with Heaven, it's a martian artifact. I guess the way it's presented could be viewed as heavenly, but, the artifact was made by the martian civilisation. The game states this clearly.

So yeah pretty much your entire interpretation is wrong, sorry.

You don' have to believe in God and Jesus to enjoy this game.

Actually, you don't have to believe in God and Jesus to believe in some sort of Hell either, but that's a different story.

I believe in God and Jesus and I enjoy this game. If your're an Atheist and you don't believe in heaven and hell I don't see why you shouldn't play this game if you don't even believe in hell.

I believe in God because it makes the most sense and I think is the only answer to some unexplainable phenomonons. Why? Because no matter how much science proves (note: I'm not dissing science) there are still questions some of which we'll never be able to answer. For example, what was before the Big Bang? There had to be something right? Why is there something instead of nothing? If there were nothing would anyone know? Is nothingness impossible since if there was truly nothing, there would not be able to be "nothing"? Things like that. That is why I believe in God.

Bah, not again...

*throws a brick at wacky*

Please, stick to the topic or take it to another thread.

Gah! Just remember this isn't necessarily HELL hell. It's another dimension (read: planet far away) that is hellish (read: lots of fire and big scary monsters). This game is only as religious and YOU make it.

For me this game has no religious context whatsoever.

Verdale said:

I was glad that I found out that Hell and such was just some ancient, advanced civilization and that the forces Heaven was a talking box with razors on it.

If the story is really like that then it´s incredibly lame, but I guess it´s just how you interprete it to fit in your atheistic believes.
By the way, atheism is practically just another form of religion, the atheists belive religions are all wrong and that you can understand the world solely with a materialistic view. It´s just as close-minded as many religions.

I'm an agnostic, and I honestly don't care whether or not heaven and hell exist. However, Doom 3 is a freaking awesome game. So who cares? Just play the game.

Tetzlaff said:

By the way, atheism is practically just another form of religion, the atheists belive religions are all wrong and that you can understand the world solely with a materialistic view. It´s just as close-minded as many religions.

Yeah, the basic foundation of athiesm is the thought that each individual is in control of their own life, and that we pretty much rule our own lives. Anyways, Doom and Doom 2 appealed to me as a Christain, but when I went athiest, I stopped playing them. However, I couldn't pass up Doom 3, which is why I bought it and played it. Anyways, thanks for all your responses without too much flaming.

its a game, i could care less if it had any religous stuff in it or not.
trying to find meanings in a game like this is dumb. for 1 thing its a damn game, Id didnt make it so you could spend hours comeing up with crackpot connections.
its like the people who try to find religion in the matrix movies, fucking crack heads. granted those movies have a lesson, and may take some story elements from biblical stories. however there is no meaning in those movies, like some people think.

Doom III is a game, stop wasting braincells coming up with off the wall crap. just play and enjoy it for what it is.

Verdale said:

Yeah, the basic foundation of athiesm is the thought that each individual is in control of their own life, and that we pretty much rule our own lives.

That´s a good premise for sure, but from my understanding it isn´t characteristic for atheism. For example Aleister Crowleys occultism with it´s "do what thou wilt" supports the same view and is not atheistic.

Verdale....umm...Doom 3 is a game of fiction. It hasn't happened and the notion of Hell being an old ancient civilization for one isn't true, Heaven wasn't the one who attacked teh civilization..Hell did,DER (they're attacking now!), and it was never stated anywhere in the game that Hell was an ancient civiliation.

What the game DID say what that Hell came and attacked an ancient civilization until the civilization they sacrificed themselves to make the soul cube which then casts the demons back into the pit of hell. So basically...you got the storyline completely wrong, you didn't even get the sides straight.

Hell attacks civilization > Civilization makes soul cube and casts hell back into the pit > Man is stupid and makes a portal to hell > man finds soul cube > Hell comes out of portal and attacks UAC > Hell takes Soul Cube to hell > you fight you way through the game > go to hell and retrieve Soul Cube > Hell gets thrown back into the pit and it is sealed.

Thats the storyline in a nutshell. Actually, it was the athiests fault that Hell was released because of their ignorance and arrogance....Thanks guys!

Gah! Just remember this isn't necessarily HELL hell. It's another dimension (read: planet far away) that is hellish (read: lots of fire and big scary monsters). This game is only as religious and YOU make it.

For me this game has no religious context whatsoever.

Once again, your wrong. Hell is hell. And the enemies are demons FROM hell. The whole game is about you fighting Hell back into Hell. IT says it dozens of times and has many clues to tell you that it's not another dimension. For instance Betrueger saying "I'll eat your soul!" or "Your soul will burn in hell forever" << That sounds like it's the Hell known in relgion. To say it's another dimension is just stupid. Oh, and the PENTAGRAMS EVERYWHERE was a hint as well.

I believe in God because I don't believe in God.

Hmm, people are looking far far too into a game for the sort of thing.

S1lent said:

Once again, your wrong. Hell is hell. And the enemies are demons FROM hell. The whole game is about you fighting Hell back into Hell. IT says it dozens of times and has many clues to tell you that it's not another dimension. For instance Betrueger saying "I'll eat your soul!" or "Your soul will burn in hell forever" << That sounds like it's the Hell known in relgion. To say it's another dimension is just stupid. Oh, and the PENTAGRAMS EVERYWHERE was a hint as well.

Nope, that's entirely up to you.

Epistax said:

Nope, that's entirely up to you.

The fact that the game calls it "HELL" and the "HELL" level is completely based off many western descriptions and versions of "HELL" and the bad guy talks about "HELL" and it's completely obvious that the entire game is about defeating demons from HELL... thus the game may or may not be about hell?

Epistax said:

Nope, that's entirely up to you.

Ya, Hell in the game is based on many religios (particularly biblical) refrences of Hell. It's not "up to me," it's a fact. You saying it's "up to me" is just trying to deny it.

Linguica said:

The fact that the game calls it "HELL" and the "HELL" level is completely based off many western descriptions and versions of "HELL" and the bad guy talks about "HELL" and it's completely obvious that the entire game is about defeating demons from HELL... thus the game may or may not be about hell?

If someone invented a technology which unleashed monsters on the Earth, we would call those monsters demons, and we would call where they are from "Hell". This is human nature by default. Also "Hell" and "devils" are literary devices. The fact that they made "Hell" look like some of the fan-fiction based off the bible although not like others (Dante's Inferno, anyone?) doesn't make it a religiously binding experience.

As mentioned the only symbol is the pentagram which is hardly binding either. It has had many different meaning throughout history. The Babylionians used it as a compass (showing fowards, backwords, left, right, and up). The corners mean Jupiter, Mercury, Mars, Saturn and Venus according to astrology, Mars being the upper point (hint?). As for the Christian relationship it was originally tied to the crucifixion, marking each wound. Later on the chruch (I don't know which, probably catholisism) decided to turn it into a "satanic symbol". However the most prevailent use was in ancient Greece where each point stood for things in a mix of philosophy and mythology.

If you want to convince me that this is Christian Hell (hehe) I'm going to need to see something other than a pentagram. Unless there is any specific reference to Christ, this cannot be the case. Does a single voice over state that you cannot be saved? As for the threat to owning the player's soul forever, that's simply the transformation into a "demon". The Borg do that :)

Addition: If you want to decide it's Christian Hell, fine. I have no reason to decide that and I enjoyed my experience with the game just fine. If deciding that this game is Biblical ruins your experience, just remember it's your call, whether you want to admit it or not. :-)

Killing demons is infinitely more awesome then killing aliens. If you're having a 'crises of non-faith’ at the idea of playing a game with demons in it, then you have failed the 'I deserve existence' test.

If we made a portal and monster came out of it...we would call them aliens or monsters.

Besides, the demons called it hell..not just the humans. Betrugar (in his possessed form) kept saying "Your soul will burn in hell forever" and "millions of my children will come [etc...]" It's quite clear that it was meant to be hell...not to mention ID even said it was Hell.

It's the game's interpretation of Hell, it's not an issue. Case Closed.

And whatever your religion is, it shouldn't have any bearing on how you play or enjoy the game.

When someone like Epistax goes so far out of his way to try and convince everybody that Hell may not be Hell in Doom3 it worries me.

Either you believe your own lies or you simply enjoy having people believe them.

id's original Doom1/2 were about Hell; a clearly stated fact mentioned in the instruction booklet, numerous interviews, and within the game. Doom3 is about Hell as well; also fact, and mentioned within the game numerous times, it's the name of a level, and in many interviews.

In addition, id makes entertainment. So Hell is hell is hell. Anything they grew up thinking, knowing, or learning about hell, they put in the game so they could connect with their audience.

It's simple, it's blatant, it's easy, it's instinct... it'd id. Stop being stupid.

It sounds like he's just making stuff up because he absolutely refuses to believe that there might be just a little possiblity that the concept of Hell isn't so obsurd.

According to him, anything referred to as Hell is another dimension. Anything reffered to as a demon is anything that we don't recognize, and every pentagram is either a non-satanic symbol or just a letter. This is so rid.iculous. Do you actually believe this?

"If there was no God, there would be no Atheists."

IT'S A FREAKING GAME

I don't need to believe that eating flowers allows me to throw fireballs in real life to enjoy Super Mario Bros., why would a game's inclusion of Hell faze my agnosticism?

Although I do confess a certain fascination with all the different versions of Hell out there.