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Sephiroth

home protection

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well i am thinking about investing in my second amendment rights. Now i am not looking for a full auto firearm.
ironicly my mother hates guns but for some odd reason insist that i own some form of personal protection, mainly in the form of a hand gun.

My uncle also wants to get me a gun for christmas. he has only been bugging me about it for the last 5 years. mainly because he wants to take me hunting.

my neighbor is selling some items from his personal arsonal. a few i have fired. among the items are a .45 pistol, 9mm pistol, duke3d like shotgun ( i have fired this one) a 9mm rifle, a standard looking shotgun and a few other things.

now i am not a gun expert. i know the basics. so what would be a good gun to buy? how about prices? what is also good for personal protection and hunting?

note i am not looking to get a concealed carry licence. I dont have any children, younger brothers/sister ( that i need to worry about), or trigger happy pet monkeys. though i have had my fair share of having to deal with knife wileding drugged up women my father would bring home. a time when a shotgun is welcome over doging a knife and other random objects.

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I think a handgun would probably work out better than using a shotgun to blow your dad's bitches away. You aren't supposed to shoot to kill you know.

Also, get a license.

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Shotguns are best for home protection because for 1, the shells won't pierce the wall and hit a family member or something. Also you don't need as good of aim with a shotty and you get much more stopping power if you catch my drift... :P

I suggest getting a Remington 870.

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Get one of those compact shotguns like the one Il Duce uses at the end of Boondock Saints, for the reasons stated above. For shells, use something like bird shot, or if you can, rubber slugs. Maybe rock salt, even. You don't need to kill anybody, just send them away a bit torn up.

A shotgun of the type you are likely to get is not likely to be semi-automatic, and that is where hand guns are superior.

A handgun is a good option to have if you need something to keep under your pillow or to carry with you without being given funny looks or without losing concealability. A guy with a shotgun strapped to his back will probably get police attention in the form of being followed constantly. Go H&K or Glock for handguns, as they are generally known to be most reliable with fewest moving parts and so on.

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[D3HoE]Makaveli said:
the shells won't pierce the wall and hit a family member or something.

You eject the shells from the gun onto the ground after you fire....heh

If you use a shotgun, use birdshot. A slug WILL go through walls and will increase the likelyhood of you killing the fucker since they mushroom after hitting something. Birdshot, from a distance anyway, probably won't kill...it WILL sting and it WILL fuck him up. But you don't want manslaughter charges now, do you?

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[D3HoE]Makaveli said:
Shotguns are best for home protection because for 1, the shells won't pierce the wall and hit a family member or something. Also you don't need as good of aim with a shotty and you get much more stopping power if you catch my drift... :P

I suggest getting a Remington 870.


I agree, but you NEED to get a license and it would be best to buy a gun from a gun DEALER. Trust me, its better to do it that way.

Sephiroth said:

though i have had my fair share of having to deal with knife wileding drugged up women my father would bring home. a time when a shotgun is welcome over doging a knife and other random objects.


Why do you live with your parents and why does your dad like drugged women?? Really...this just doesn't seem right to me...

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Quast said:

A slug WILL go through walls and will increase the likelyhood of you killing the fucker

If you were responding to me, I did say RUBBER slug...

Magnum: Edit your posts with more quotes and responses. No need for such clutter.

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Ultraviolet said:

If you were responding to me, I did say RUBBER slug...

No, you hadn't posted yet when I replied. It took me a while before I hit submit though.

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Quast said:

No, you hadn't posted yet when I replied. It took me a while before I hit submit though.

Plus there was a major slowness a few people in various locations were talking about on IRC.

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In most states in America, you must have a license to own a handgun and all handgun purchases are not completed until a backround check is done. I suggest going the legal route because if you are caught with an unregistered gun and you have no license, you are fucked.

BTW, I'd recommend a 9mm or the .45

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Ultraviolet said:
A handgun is a good option to have if you need something to keep under your pillow or to carry with you without being given funny looks or without losing concealability.


All right, this is the kind of shit I'm talking about. Can't anyone see what's wrong with this sentence? Jesus Christ.

In 1990, 10,567 Americans were killed by handguns. KILLED, not wounded, crippled, etc. The same number for Sweden: 13. When taking population figures of 1990 into account it was still about 33 times as likely to get killed by a handgun in the US than here. For fuck's sake... Did anyone see "Bowling For Columbine"?

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?r103:S13JY3-77:
(Source: U.S. Congress Archives)

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Guns are bad.

Gun owners are bad.

Shooting people is bad.

Getting shot is bad.

Getting a gun is bad.

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The attitudes towards guns displayed in this thread are scary. It's no wonder those numbers look the way they do when people consider guns something "cool" or even see them as toys.

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Training, training and more training is what really matters, regardless of what firearm you purchase. Mindset is also crucial.

Virtually all types of buckshot and rounds from numerous calibres will go through most interior walls. Buckshot will penetrate to the other side, as people have found out the hard way, even the lighter loads.

But most importantly, ask yourselm do you really need a firearm to protect yourself and your family? Are there other measures you can take to make your home more secure?

Remember, it's SELF-DEFENSE NOT PROPERTY DEFENSE!

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Ultraviolet said:

Get one of those compact shotguns like the one Il Duce uses at the end of Boondock Saints


OMFG great film! Anyways, guns be illegal over here, obviously. Pointy sticks and stabby-knives must suffice.

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Silverwyvern said:

Call me Canadian, but why does everyone need a gun??

Call me Swedish, but I'm asking the same thing.

It would be cool to have land mines in the front yard though.

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Kristian Ronge said:

All right, this is the kind of shit I'm talking about. Can't anyone see what's wrong with this sentence? Jesus Christ.

Maybe what's wrong with that sentences is that you failed to take it in the tongue-in-cheek, grain-of-salt way it was intended. I wouldn't personally sleep with a gun unless I thought it was necessary because of frequent breakins or the knowledge that someone was coming to kill me, and I wouldn't keep a concealed weapon on me at all times unless I felt I was in a dangerous place. Still, I do consider gun ownership an important exercise of American constitutional rights, if for no more benefit than including the discipline of cleaning, maintaining and learning to shoot accurately into one's life.

The figures for smoking, car accidents, and various health problems are all probably bigger than the ones for handgun related deaths in the US, even the three of those seperately. Oh, I know. Let's make smoking and driving illegal. And being in bad health should be illegal too.

Guns perform a social function in this country.

Erik said:

The attitudes towards guns displayed in this thread are scary. It's no wonder those numbers look the way they do when people consider guns something "cool" or even see them as toys.

Traffic accidents are because people consider fast cars something "cool" or even see them as toys.

Loving the moral high ground crap here, folks. Just remember, pacifism only works in non-physical fights or if you don't mind dying or being maimed or detained or having your family killed or something like that. Unless you're in it for martyrdom or something.

You guys are SO off-topic.

Spike said:

OMFG great film!

Damn straight. I wanna get the DVD and see the deleted scenes, but I could only find VHS at Blockbuster.

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Ultraviolet said:

Guns perform a social function in this country.

That IS scary.

Traffic accidents are because people consider fast cars something "cool" or even see them as toys.

Yes, quite a bit of them are.

Loving the moral high ground crap here, folks. Just remember, pacifism only works in non-physical fights or if you don't mind dying or being maimed or detained or having your family killed or something like that.

Why should I worry so much about getting into a physical fight or my family getting assaulted? It is not likely to ever happen. If it does happen, realistically owning a gun won't help me anyway. The comfort from owning a gun is purely psychologically rooted. Michael Moore got it right in Bowling for Columbine.

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I am not just looking for something for home protection. thats just an extra feature right now. I want something that is good for some hunting and shooting.
birds and small animals for the most part. however one day i do want to go moose hunting.

as for personal protection i can understand why my mother wants me to have a gun. My dad is into alot of shit. I know about alot of it but I don't know who is involved outside of my family and his circle of friends. If my dad does something stupid, or anyone else for that matter, it could be deadly. living with my dad is like living on a razors edge. I live here because i dont make the money i need to survive on my own. and i am going to school. i am not gonna take out loans unless i need to do so. this up coming spring i my join the navy or airforce anyways.

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In college we had a showing of Bowling for Columbine with a discussion afterwards. Being an expensive engineering school in Indiana, there were a substantial number of conservatives in the crowd.

What I found most humorous was their utter shock and horror at the Canadians interviewed in the movie that refused to lock their doors, despite having a couple instances of people entering and stealing some junk. The Canadian attitude (from the movie, anyway) seemed to be "oh well, just some kids having fun or some poor guy down on his luck, nothing to worry about." Several of the people in the crowd made statements to the effect that they would rather shoot and kill someone then have them swipe some stuff from their house, which I found to be very revealing.

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Sephiroth said:

I am not just looking for something for home protection. thats just an extra feature right now. I want something that is good for some hunting and shooting.
birds and small animals for the most part. however one day i do want to go moose hunting.

I'd say go with a 20 gauge shotgun if just for home protection and fowl/small game.

I doubt that will cut it for moose hunting. I'm not sure where you would choose to hunt moose, so I can't say anything about certain hunting regulations in whatever area that may be. You might not be able to use a shotgun in certain areas.

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Erik said:
The attitudes towards guns displayed in this thread are scary. It's no wonder those numbers look the way they do when people consider guns something "cool" or even see them as toys.

Ea, for me guns have always been a toy-thing. I had gun, weapon and warrior toys all along, during my childhood, and now I play this game DOOM a lot, and don't mind watching violent movies and whatnot. But really, I don't give a flying fuck about real guns and don't really see why I would ever, either.

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Fredrik said:

That IS scary.

I don't think so. Balance of power in favor of the people (not counting all that modern military technology we aren't allowed to have, so it's more a matter of symbolism)...

Yes, quite a bit of them are.

Since we agree, let's now work together to outlaw cars.

Why should I worry so much about getting into a physical fight or my family getting assaulted? It is not likely to ever happen. If it does happen, realistically owning a gun won't help me anyway. The comfort from owning a gun is purely psychologically rooted. Michael Moore got it right in Bowling for Columbine.

I personally am a light sleeper and live in a very small house. If I were to hear some jackass dicking around and think my life may be in danger, I would check it out before said jackass had a chance to rape and kill anyone, as assessing and taking control of such a situation early may save lives, and I might just find myself in a situation where I need some weapon. I'm more likely to pistolwhip the guy and drag him off to the police, but if he is himself armed (less than me) and aware of me, the weapon will provide intimidation more than lethal force. If lethal force should present itself as necessary after the point of presentation of arms, I will either fire first or not present my weapon as a threat to the assailant in order to get the chance to do some closer manipulation. A gun to my head, held by an assailt who may not wish to actually have to use his weapon -- who brought it for the purpose of intimidation as well -- is the least threatening weapon of any.

I am not particularly worried about home invasion. The home invasion thing is just the most common pro-gun argument, so I used it as an example. I live in a small town and have only heard of a few cases of home invasion, and most of the time only entertainment devices were stolen. I also don't have much of value here in this house. In fact, I know that the most expensive things here I could live without easily.

I will not simply ride things out and hope for the best, though, should something happen. I will attempt to take control whenever possible, because I trust myself more than I trust fate and law enforcement. In the home invasion example, one can never tell what an intruder may have in mind for the occupants of the house. It's best to work the situation out on one's own terms rather than find out the hard way that a given intruder did not simply intend to steal a stereo.

Anyway, on the likelihood thing: I'll agree to your take on the chances of home invasion in the strictly mathematical sense, but I still have airbags and seatbelts in my car. I still look across intersections when I have a perfectly good green light telling me it's A-OK to proceed. I still keep my foot over the brake, ready to go, when I have the right of way against intersecting traffic. My own precautions have saved my life, or at least my insurance premiums, several times so far, even just today and yesterday (because most people can't fucking drive). Why shouldn't I personally prepare myself for things that could ruin or take my life?

I don't think that I have said that everyone should own a gun. I fully believe in double standards. I believe I should be armed because I am capable of effectively using said armament. I do not believe that stupid people who can't control their Rambo instinct or their gangsta rivalries should be armed.

Restrictions should only apply to idiots. Everyone else should be free to exercise their own judgement. Cops and so on should be able to tell it like it is. "The other guy got away with doing that because he knows what he is doing. You are a dipshit and would just get yourself hurt. Have a nice day."

Anarchy for me only. :-D :-D :-D

Long post probably rife with misthoughts. Kinda busy right now! Be nice.

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