Quake TC anyone?

is there a group out there working on this? I would love to help with concept art. :)

Unfortunately, such a project would almost certainly get shutdown by ID Software's lawyers.

Of course, there's nothing to stop someone creating a TC which uses the exact same kind of Lovecraftian/fantasy/sci-fi hybrid style as Quake, just so long as there were no breaches of copyright.

QDoom

You may have noticed that this is the Doom 3 forum, not Classic Doom...

I'm talking about making quake 1 on the Doom 3 engein. how would that be illegal? people have made Doom on the quake engein.

It would be illegal because in recent years, ID Software have shown that they like to protect their copyrights.

They seemed to ignore the Doom TC for Quake 1 (maybe they didn't care back in those days?), but a mod called Generations for Quake 2 (which featured content and remakes of content from Wolf3D, Doom and Quake 1) and several Doom TCs for Quake 3 (including one called Reborn) recieved a "cease and desist" letters from ID's lawyers.

If you don't believe me, just e-mail ID and ask if they would give permission for a hypothical Doom3->Quake 1 TC to exist. I can 99% guarantee that they'll so "no".

Well, there's a group of people remaking doom 1 shareware for doom 3, it's called cdoom. They haven't been shut down yet.

From what I gather, if you just make episode 1, the shareware episode of quake, I don't think they'd care all that much. But if you make the whole game, they might start getting a little pissed off.

Hmm, maybe, maybe not.

You probably can't make a faithful Doom 3 -> Quake 1 conversion, but maybe you can do a reinterpretation of Quake 1 with a few modifications.

I know from Generations Arena that it is fully legal to recreate the Quake weapons - what does present a problem afaik, is the characters. Iirc, you cannot use a guy that looks identical to the Quake 1 guy and call him "Ranger" - I also don't think you could use any of the Quake 1 monsters (e.g. the Fiend) and retain its name and appearance.

What you can do for sure is that you can use what's already in Doom 3 and then make a couple new character models from scratch and call them something different. You can possibly use the name "Quake", since it's already mentioned in a PDA in Doom 3 (but ask Id to be sure).
Also, make sure the levels are totally >new< - no Quake 1 levels "ported" over into Doom 3!

What I've noticed already in Doom 3 that could be used:

* Marine zombie (the unarmed kind) - outfit this dude with a shotgun, give him Z-sec AI and he'll work nicely as the Quake 1 Grunt.

* Maggot - some code changes and voilá! You got the Fiend!

* Hell Knight - Give him a lightning attack instead of the usual green fireball attack and he's the Shambler.

* Several orangey-brown textures already in Doom 3.

* The name 'Quake'.

* The name 'Hell Knight' (was known as a 'Death Knight' in Quake 1 but some versions had him named the 'Hell Knight').

That's what I can remember off the top of my head.

It would be much more interesting anyways to make a Doom3 TC that re-interpretes expands the Quake1 universe. You can have an axe, nailgun and grenadelauncher and if they don´t look exactly like those in Q1 it isn´t a legal problem.
Concerning the monster designs, I have no clue... they can probably copyright original creatures like the Fiend and the Shambler, but can they copyright a chainsaw weilding ogre? And maybe you can make new designs based on the Q1 monsters, just like many Q1 monsters are based on some Lovecraft ideas. So that it just looks "Quake", but not like a copy.

edit: like DSM suggests, there are some Doom3 monsters that could be altered into quakeish creatures. The Hell zombies look like their Q1 cousins, and the Vagary is reminiscent of the Vore / Shalrath. And so on.

Tetzlaff said:

It would be much more interesting anyways to make a Doom3 TC that re-interpretes expands the Quake1 universe.

Hell yeah! I could do a decent story for it!

/Me hopes he doesn't become involed in too many projects.

For some reason SOG wich was based off of the Generations resources was not shut down. But Reborn mod for Quake 3 was.

Well, the weapons in ID Software's games tend to be extremely generic, so they can't really copyright them. Therefore if ID had tried to take the SOG team to court, they would have simply pointed out the hundreds of other FPS' which feature shotguns, chainguns, assault rifles, rocket launchers, grenades, plasma rifles, etc.

Even the SOG player models didn't look too much like the originals - in fact, the marines from Halo look far more like the Doom marine than the SOG counterpart does ;).

Reborn, on the other hand, tried to recreate distinctive ID Software creations such as the Imp and the Arachnotron. If they had been willing to come up with their own, brand new types of hellspawn instead, they would have been free to complete the mod.

Yeah, Why on earth didn't they do that instead?

You could always just play Quake with the graphical capabilities of Doom 3. Ports for Quake such as Tenebrae or Dark Places enhance the graphics to be like Doom 3's. However, you need a beefy computer to run Tenebrae, and I don't know how to activate the bump maps in Dark Places, although I've heard DP runs faster because it's optimized.

I wouldn't mind seeing a re-evisioned Quake like mod inside of Doom 3 though! I mean, Valve was able to release a mod called Deathmatch Classic that was basically Quake inside of Half-Life without any problems. Hell, some of the DM levels were exactly the same as those in Quake. It wouldn't be a bad idea to contact iD first just to be safe.

Deathmatch Classic came about because Valve had the license for the Quake 1 engine, and the way the license is worded means it allows for the use of Quake 1 game content as well as engine content. Technically any company who owned the engine license could recreate Quake 1 if they wanted to, though presumably it'd have to be be within the (modified) Quake 1 engine.

I assume ID's lawyers have made sure the same thing can't happen with Quake 2, Quake 3 and Doom 3 engine licensees, but you never know...

That's the position the jDRP is in, because it's for jDoom which essentially IS Doom and your required to own a copy of Doom to use it. I'm quite sure ID would be cool about it. It's not like I'm stealing their content and putting it into another engine.

I really wish that for Quake 4 they had decided to return to the Quake 1 universe though. Quake 2 was OK imo, Quake 3 doesn't count.

Actually I don't know why theyre all called Quake, I mean, theyre three totally different games.

You could always just play Quake with the graphical capabilities of Doom 3. Ports for Quake such as Tenebrae or Dark Places enhance the graphics to be like Doom 3's.

Imho, it's more than just the graphics - Doom 3 has per-poly hit detection, ragdoll physics, a better sound engine, NPCs, vehicles (ugh!) and outdoor areas are supported in its engine.

I haven't really kept up with Tenebrae's development for ages, but last I heard, Tenebrae was ridiculously tough on the hardware even in mildly populated areas and it did not have D3's capabilities of using a high-poly model for lighting info in conjunction with the actual "low-poly" character model.

I was never a fan of Quake 1, but a retelling of it has some serious potential. Better weapons, more interesting environments and more storyline /drool
I'd support development of such a D3 mod any day.

DaniJ said:

Actually I don't know why theyre all called Quake, I mean, theyre three totally different games.

Quake 2 was supposed to have been a totally new IP with a different name, but Id had trouble with copyright infringement and stuff - the name they had in mind was already copyright material and they couldn't really come up with another, fitting name, so they decided "ah Hell, we'll just call it Quake 2".

Quake 3 Arena could be explained as a game that's got so many things in common with Quake 1/2 that they decided to just call it Quake 3 Arena for the heck of it.

DaniJ said:

I really wish that for Quake 4 they had decided to return to the Quake 1 universe though. Quake 2 was OK imo, Quake 3 doesn't count.

I have my fingers crossed that Quake 5, if it ever happens, will be a retelling of the first Quake much like Doom 3 is a retelling of the first Doom game. I have to agree that Quake 2 isn't one of my favorite games in the series, but Quake 4 does look promising. However, I don't think Quake 4 can match my love of Quake 1 anytime soon. I love the atmosphere and monsters of Quake 1 more than those in Quake 2.

a found a site that's promising a quake TC for D3.

http://www.quakeremix.com/PHPNuke/index.php

at this point there doesn't seem to be much done though.

Tenebrae does look nice, can't really compare to newer games though... and it's waaaay too heavy on the hardware for what it does. Sadly seems like the guy moved on to the quake 2 engine.

Problem with the quake community is it doesn't seem as focused as the doom community. Alot of projects for quake, retexturing, modeling etc, seemed to have lost interest and moved to quake 2. Seems a bit short sighted and silly to me. Especially since I think q1 has a better single player game then q2 and better multi in some respects (I'm not going to get into a q1 dm vs q2 dm arguement).

I also agree with Dani about quake 4. Why raven went with the quake 2 ip instead of quake 1 is beyond me. Quake 2 had boring monsters that all looked way too similar and a setting that is alittle too much like doom to seprate it from doom 3. Quake 1 on the other hand had great monster design, great settings, and lovecraft, I mean seriously, do the math.

As far as generations is concerned, I could be wrong, but I always thought they got shut down because they were ripping textures from other games (doom/quake) and levels (non-shareware) directly from quake 1. As far as I remember it had nothing to do with monsters designs etc. It was more directly copying copyrighted material.

useless warrior said:

Why raven went with the quake 2 ip instead of quake 1 is beyond me.

It's simple: they did it because ID told them to! :P

useless warrior said:

I also agree with Dani about quake 4. Why raven went with the quake 2 ip instead of quake 1 is beyond me.

According to official info, Quake 2 was "wildly popular" - there are other opinions than those you find online.

You do the math.

I think that Quake 1 was far superior to Quake 2. Sure Quake 2 had better graphics, but the gampeplay in Quake 1 was much more enjoyable. I'd like to see what happened after you hacked your way out of Shubb-Niggurath. And Fiends would kick ass in a remake.

What? Shub Niggurath fucking sucked.

Who said Shubb-Niggurath didn't suck?

Jello said:

I think that Quake 1 was far superior to Quake 2. Sure Quake 2 had better graphics, but the gampeplay in Quake 1 was much more enjoyable.

I thought the enemies rocked as did the atmosphere (even though I can't stand the music), but it all fell to the ground because of those wimpy piece of shit weapons - if this Quake TC team makes the weapons look and feel exactly as shitty as they were in Quake, my interest in it will be reduced to a tiny pile of ashes.

Weapons, imho, can make or break a game. If a game does not have satisfying, well-designed or remotely well-balanced weapons, then it doesn't matter how interactive the game is, how appealing the universe is or how cool just about everything else looks and feels.

-

Here's how I feel an improved Quake arsenal should be like:

1. Axe: all right as it is really, but it needs metallic impact sounds combined with flesh slashing/cutting sounds whenever you slice in flesh. It needs to be fun to hack up enemies with it.

2. Shotgun: No slide to pump - this should be an automatic shotgun (because of its rate of fire which should remain the same), but still with a muffled clicking noise after each shot that should sound more metallic and badass than the shitty sound in Quake. Firing sound should sound 'noisier', but not beefier, than the original sound - however the sound is, it needs to sound like a gun, not a damn pop-gun >:-[

Maintains the Quake 1 shotgun's range and more or less its attack rating too (should still be damn fast, but perhaps a *tiny*, barely noticable bit slower so you can hear the clicking noise after each shot).

3. Db shotgun: Again an automatic shotgun with a much sharper click after each shot - design is still fairly low-tech and similar to Quake's but with 'modifications' (such as perhaps a Q2-style ammo drum) to make it look like it's a weapon from a different time than present day.

Otherwise the same.

4. Nailgun: The D3 machinegun of Quake - fairly weak projectiles, good accuracy (but easier to hit targets because of dual stream of nails), slow projectiles and good rate of fire. No 'bullet casings' are ejected and there's no muzzle flash (the gun uses a principle similar to a normal nailgun tool so it uses air pressure - still makes a badass sound like the original though), but instead it spews steam out of the barrel. Nails splinter on impact. Effective at reducing armour to zero usefulness.

Larger ammo carrying capacity for this baby is must. 400 rounds at least.

5. Perforator: D3 chaingun shooting nails. Bigger than the old shitty one but smaller than the D3 chaingun with only four barrels (this thing needs to look fucking brutal), has a handle on the side (you sorta hold it like the D3 BFG) - has spin-up delay and a grinding noise when the barrels spin. Shoots slightly more powerful nails (heated nails perhaps?) - different ammo type in other words - than the nailgun and at a slightly higher rate of fire. An ammo belt with beefy 'flechettes' is visible - the ammo belt runs through the gun whenever it fires. Has a "hammering" sound similar to the original.

No 'bullet casings' are ejected but instead it spews out the remains of the "chain" that links the nail in the ammo belt together on the opposite side of where the belt enters the gun. There's no muzzle flash, but again, steam spewing out of the barrels.

Larger ammo carrying capacity for this baby is must - preferrably a bigger capacity than that of the Nailgun, say 500 rounds.

6. Grenade launcher: No suggestions other than: it should use grenade ammo instead of rocket ammo - grenades should be more powerful than rockets. No muzzle flash (because it sure doesn't sound like gunpowder is exploding inside it).

7. Rocket launcher: Better make it less wooden in appearance (goddammit, I hate how they changed the Quake RL in the latest version of Gen Arena to look more like the shitty original) and more detailed. Mag-fed, but rockets are visible in the magazine. Otherwise make it work like the old one, but include a sound of a fresh rocket being moved into the firing chamber every time you've fired a rocket and don't forget to try and make a sound similar to the old RL firing and rocket-travelling sound - that noise just rocked.

8. Lightning gun: Increase ammo carrying capacity to at least 300 cells (a carrying capacity of 100 for a weapon that depletes ammo so quickly is BS).

Oh and don't try to imitate Quake 1's old-fashioned weapon positions (bottom center instead of bottom right-to center) - I want to see the damn guns in detail when I use them ingame.

I'd prefer reloading too, since reloading a weapon adds tremendously to a weapon's cool factor and "personality", therefore we also need to see the player's hands holding the guns - I always hated the "no-hands" view of the weapons.

dsm said:

3. Db shotgun: Again an automatic shotgun with a much sharper click after each shot - design is still fairly low-tech and similar to Quake's but with 'modifications' (such as perhaps a Q2-style ammo drum) to make it look like it's a weapon from a different time than present day.

Otherwise the same.

I think the barrels should be vertically aligned, not horizontally. That way it'll look futuristic without seeming excessively pretentious.

"Not stupid" would be if the weapons weren't centered, nor were the center vanishing point at the bottom right, but somewhere just off-center so it would look like the butt of the weapon were actually against the player's shoulder, rather than against his gut or over his shoulder and held wide-out somehow.

Job said:

I think the barrels should be vertically aligned, not horizontally. That way it'll look futuristic without seeming excessively pretentious.

I wouldn't do that in a Quake (or really, any Id game TC) - it's a trademark of Id db shottys that they're horizontally aligned and personally, I think they look beefier and more badass that way. Vertical alignment would make it look too much like an sb shotgun.

But hey, the HL/2 shotgun is basically a db shotty of the kind you described :-)

Oh and I forgot to mention one thing about the Perforator: not as accurate as the Nailgun.

useless warrior said:

Tenebrae does look nice, can't really compare to newer games though... and it's waaaay too heavy on the hardware for what it does. Sadly seems like the guy moved on to the quake 2 engine.

Not quite. Quake 2 does not have any point light information in maps no can be compiled (unless all the lights were strobing or so). Tenebrae 2's a reworking of Tenebrae 1 (which is done by a flaming coder who inserts flames in his source code (even one directed to me because I wrote CheapHack) and breaks support for other formats, not giving a damn about the Quake community he told me in an email, just only for his super ego) Besides, darkplaces is oodles better anyways in every way, and to turn on it's shadow crap, Options>Graphics will show you the way :P

Problem with the quake community is it doesn't seem as focused as the doom community. Alot of projects for quake, retexturing, modeling etc, seemed to have lost interest and moved to quake 2. Seems a bit short sighted and silly to me. Especially since I think q1 has a better single player game then q2 and better multi in some respects (I'm not going to get into a q1 dm vs q2 dm arguement).

Maybe back then, but not the bustling Quake community of today, which majorly loath Quake2. Inside3D.com, Quaketerminus.com and Quakesrc.org are good examples (though they're mainly irc-heads)