Tony Blair - Securitron (Police State 2008)

It looks like the next major step to police state/dictatorship UK is about to be taken:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1372431,00.html

(edit: just noticed the spelling mistake, doh!)

I'm really starting to hate this country and it's government you know.\

oooooOOOOOOooooooo...!

England's going to have expansive wiretap soon. Good for them.
We've had it for a while.

Remember: whenever your girlfriend asks you to say you love her in your "cute voice", five guys in a van somewhere are laughing it up.

As I always say, the increase in the number of citizens who're completely f**ked up in the head requires an increase in completely f**ked up security measures. In other words, the government aren't the only ones to blame, society itself is at fault too.

I can virtually guarantee that anyone who complains about ID cards will stop moaning the instant they become a victim of identity theft.

Next stop: Fortress and Fortress 2: Re-Entry.

Ninja_of_DooM said:

I'm really starting to hate this country and it's government you know.\

Your only starting to hate the government? You're slow.

NiGHTMARE said:

I can virtually guarantee that anyone who complains about ID cards will stop moaning the instant they become a victim of identity theft.

Not quite sure I follow the logic there...that will only make them complain even more. (especially if they had their ID stolen for complaining about the government)

I think his point was that if everyone has an identity card, it will be much more difficult for people to commit identity theft, which can expected to become an increasing problem otherwise.

But the Government are saying that Id cards are going to be used to combat terrorism.

Id cards were introduced in Spain but it didn't stop the Madrid bombings.

As you may have guessed, I'm sceptical of the idea

TheDarkArchon said:

Id cards were introduced in Spain but it didn't stop the Madrid bombings.

That's precisely my point of this thread. That, plus the fact they're not going to be compulsory straightaway - any remotely decent terrorist is going to choose not to carry one.

This was summed up in Monday's episode of Spooks - where there was a hacker that made out on the news to be an Islamic extremist, but was actually just out for money and revenge. When the MI5 guy said to the spin doctor that he should tell the truth to the press over the hacker's nature, he replied "let them sleep in their beds over it" - implying that the government wanted the people to think it was a terrorist. (I know it's only TV, but that scene felt remarkably true to life on this occasion)

It's the way of the world unfortunately - governments using lies and scaremongering to force through laws that give them complete control over everyone, thus guaranteeing their stay in power forever. (laws that would otherwise fail it big time)

Spooks is great

The Ultimate DooMer said:

It's the way of the world unfortunately - governments using lies and scaremongering to force through laws that give them complete control over everyone, thus guaranteeing their stay in power forever. (laws that would otherwise fail it big time)

Well, judging by the amount of negative letters the Daily Express gets over the Id card issue, scaremongering is not working very well.

Reminds me of the news that a spending bill was just being forced through Congress in the US and someone had slipped in one line that would allow any gov. agency or anyone appointed by them to read anyone's tax returns :P

As far as I can tell, there's actually a lot more scaremongering against ID cards and other such security measures than in favour of them.

TheDarkArchon said:

Well, judging by the amount of negative letters the Daily Express gets over the Id card issue, scaremongering is not working very well.

They were also heavily against casinos and printed a first-hand report from America about how horrible they are - but the government still got its way.

NiGHTMARE said:

As far as I can tell, there's actually a lot more scaremongering against ID cards and other such security measures than in favour of them.

There needs to be. But the voice of the people, the media or the opposing politicians don't count for anything with this government. (and soon it may count against them like it did with the BBC)

As I said, you wouldn't feel that way if someone was going around pretending to be you - buying stuff on your credit card, setting up fake bank and building society accounts and taking out mortgages in your name, and so on.

The only people who really need to be concerned about ID cards are criminals. Anyone else is probably just somewhat misinformed, paranoid, or both. It's not as if ID cards are even a radical departure from existing methods of identification such as passports, and driving licenses, etc - they just consolidate numerous existing things into one.

If the government truly wanted to punish people who didn't agree with them by removing their identity, I have bad news for you: that's already possible!

fodders said:

Reminds me of the news that a spending bill was just being forced through Congress in the US and someone had slipped in one line that would allow any gov. agency or anyone appointed by them to read anyone's tax returns :P

Yeah. I dunno what's more frightening about that story. The fact that they let that get past them, or the fact that they went "oh shit, I didn't see that the first time" after they passed that. I mean, aren't they supposed to be reading these bills? ISN'T THAT WHAT WE ARE PAYING THEM FOR?

Danarchy said:

Yeah. I dunno what's more frightening about that story. The fact that they let that get past them, or the fact that they went "oh shit, I didn't see that the first time" after they passed that. I mean, aren't they supposed to be reading these bills? ISN'T THAT WHAT WE ARE PAYING THEM FOR?

No no, we pay our politicians to fly around the world in first class - on their own private jets - eating pate, only to land in Paris for a grand tour and eat more pate.

Well, Mr. Bush generally seems to need a small army of bodyguards to have his pate there.