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RamboBones

Doom2 UV Run in 24:40 - No Damage (TAS)

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After much work I have finally improved upon my old doom2 'reality' demo, which was over 2 hours!, to produce this proper speedrun of all 32 levels of doom2 without taking a single bit of damage. The demo can be downloaded here.

This demo is of course tool assisted and was made with Andrey Budko's prboom modification, as well as a tiny bit of help from LMPC on map 16. Any comments on the demo are of course most welcome and although very few people care about 'reality' style demos I encourage people to watch it, as while it's not quite on the same level as Andrey Budko's 30uv1441 it's getting there :)

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PrBoom total time tallied to 24:40 and I've never known it to be wrong, so I dunno where 26:15 came from. Entertaining run, though. I wish the chaingunners and shotgunners aimed that poorly all the time. ;)

I'm surprised that some tricks were excluded (cited for frustration) since others that were included are on a level of frustration that's tough to match, such as the map16 red bar glide and the map21 glide. The map10 glide, although very minor, was one example, and possibly the map22 bar glide to avoid the blue key.

Some other things I noticed briefly on that first watch:

map13: blue key grab was absent.

map32: why even go here? ;)

map27: opening the red key door with the nightmare strategy seemed unnecessary.

There were a few other things, but as you said, you were pushing to release it, so I won't be a stickler. Well done overall. :)

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Argh how did I get the time wrong, must be tiredness or something. I'll fixup the files and change the link. Opulent if you read this get the changed file so I don't have to resend it to you.

The map 16 bar glide is actually fairly easy to do with a bit of replay editing, LMPC my friend :)

I did map 32 because it's part of the game, hence I say I did all 32 levels ;)

For map 27 I opened it that way as I just couldn't force the vile back and yeh it was annoying me, took me like 2 goes the easy way :)

Map 13 I now know how to do the glide but it's a bit late now

I gave some thought to the map 10 glide but after 10 seconds couldn't make it work, and it was only a minor glide after all so I just left it.

Map 22 I was stuck on and left the project for like a week and just decide I'd do it the slow way or I'd never get it done.

As for those chaingunners and shotgunners aiming badly well yeh they require a bit of encouragement. If you don't hit them at all they tend to take a while to actually start shooting you, good thing to remember, and otherwise try, try and try again and just move in a few random directions and eventually they'll miss you, good example for that is map 15.

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Kick ass! I'll surely enjoy this. :-)

EDIT: I enjoyed that immensely! Good to see you made an effort to include some hard tricks there as well, making for a very competitive time.

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Very cool! Just extraordinary to watch.

I sure have to respect all the effort that went into making that.

NICE JOB!

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This may be one of the few demos that I will actually watch - and I'll be getting PRBoom for the sole purpose of doing so.

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*salutes*

Great work, im watching right now on prboom

EDIT: gl boom is messing it up, the demo works but wrongly, apparently something is out of sync

I set "compatibility" to "doom2 1.9" dunno what im doing wrong

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So... black sheep are more agile that other sheep breeds!

You're deluded if you believe there's some kind of standard defining the common member of this "community" (i.e. whoever has anything to do with DOOM and DOOM II nowadays.) Even if there were... who cares?

Speedrunning kicks ass, anyway. It's simply playing the game, taken to the point of excellence; and this is done by sharing the playing over recordings. TAS is an extension of that into the realm of the (nearly?) impossible.

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myk said:

So... black sheep are more agile that other sheep breeds!

You're deluded if you believe there's some kind of standard defining the common member of this "community" (i.e. whoever has anything to do with DOOM and DOOM II nowadays.) Even if there were... who cares?

Speedrunning kicks ass, anyway. It's simply playing the game, taken to the point of excellence; and this is done by sharing the playing over recordings. TAS is an extension of that into the realm of the (nearly?) impossible.


I think he wasn't being entirely serious. That being said, there's definitely a "nearly" needed there - any TAS demo could, in theory at least, be played in a non-TAS way, too.

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RamboBones said:

...I did map 32 because it's part of the game...


Hehe I agree. Should be a rule for those full-run demos.

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Wobbo said:

EDIT: gl boom is messing it up, the demo works but wrongly, apparently something is out of sync

Works fine in glboom 2.2.4 for me. There's no need to set the compatibility level for playback - the exe will (correctly) autodetect this as a Doom2.exe-format demo.

Might there be a problem with your iwad? For example, a node rebuild is enough to cause desyncs.

Schneelocke said:

any TAS demo could, in theory at least, be played in a non-TAS way, too.

Except where exe hacks have been used to make things possible that are physically impossible when playing normally (and on checking with LMPC, I see that this is indeed the case here - S50 during turns).

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Whilst S50 in turns does sorta make this exact demo impossible to do normally. It is 'theoretically' possible to do a demo like this normally but unless you have some serious ESP I don't think it's going to happen, at least not at sub 30 minutes anyway.

Any ideas on what I should try and demo next? I really want to get the reality style back alive so I'll be sticking to it for a while longer. Maybe I'll try a hell revealed run :), now that would be interesting. I could also probably do the Doom 1 episodes, yeh that sounds like a better idea.

Edit: Doom1 run seems pretty hard since you have to die at the end of the first episode :P. I have a quick question though, I was watching a hell revealed run and on level 7 the guy manages to kill every arachnatron with just 2 rockets, how the hell is this possible? They always take three.

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Grazza said:

Except where exe hacks have been used to make things possible that are physically impossible when playing normally (and on checking with LMPC, I see that this is indeed the case here - S50 during turns).


That's a gray area really, I think - comparable to, say, glitches in NES games that require you to press Up and Down at the same time. That's something you can't do on the original controllers, but if you modify a controller to allow that or use an emulator, you can still do it.

(I hope that's enough of an explanation - I don't feel like writing more, especially since I'm quite sure you'll just find more nits to pick, anyway.)

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RamboBones said:

Whilst S50 in turns does sorta make this exact demo impossible to do normally. It is 'theoretically' possible to do a demo like this normally but unless you have some serious ESP I don't think it's going to happen, at least not at sub 30 minutes anyway.

You can turn off the automated strafe-50 and keep the other TAS features (slomo and joining). Then you only get legal gametics, but there shouldn't be many major differences in what is possible, assuming none of the vital manoeuvres strictly require S50 while turning. Presumably none of those in Doom2 do, given that there were non-TAS reality demos recorded on each map on at least some skill level (nomo on map25).

I have a quick question though, I was watching a hell revealed run and on level 7 the guy manages to kill every arachnatron with just 2 rockets, how the hell is this possible? They always take three.

I presume that was a TAS demo (30hr2843?). They don't always take three rockets; you just need favourable RNG sequences to take them down in two. And the way to get that, as I'm sure you know, is by rerecording and rerecording until, by varying your actions slightly, you get the sequence you need. Incidentally, "two rockets per arachnotron" was regarded as a tell-tale sign that one particular compet-n entry was not recorded normally. Link.

Schneelocke: There is no possible control set-up that would ever give a GF50 SR50 TR1 gametic with the original exe (unless you're using -turbo). Strafe-50 tics are generated only when strafe is on, and thus when turning is impossible.

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Grazza said:
I presume that was a TAS demo (30hr2843?). They don't always take three rockets; you just need favourable RNG sequences to take them down in two. And the way to get that, as I'm sure you know, is by rerecording and rerecording until, by varying your actions slightly, you get the sequence you need. Incidentally, "two rockets per arachnotron" was regarded as a tell-tale sign that one particular compet-n entry was not recorded normally.

Okay now that makes sense. I don't suppose there is any easy way of knowing if you got a good hit in or not, since replaying once rocket shot repeatedly is doable trying to do two would be alot harder, especially in the numbers we're talking about. Well I guess I have some time to work on that before I'm up to level 7 in HR, so should be a problem.

Anyway, let's try and keep this OT :D

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Tormentor667 said:

Just curious: What is this "glide"-thing you are talking about?

A bar glide is where you go between, normally two bars, that your not suppose to be able to fit through yet you can still use engine bugs to force your way through. Normally this is done to save getting keys although end of map 10 you can get through a wall right at the exit which saves you a few seconds.

If you go to the compet-n site and go to the tricks list you'll see all the known bar glides, as well as other tricks.

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Ok, I need to know how do I run a demo (I've never done this before and I only use Z-Doom. I can't figure out how to get Boom running - I know, I know, sacrilege).

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Juras_Avis said:

Ok, I need to know how do I run a demo (I've never done this before and I only use Z-Doom. I can't figure out how to get Boom running - I know, I know, sacrilege).


Open a dos box:
Go to start > run type cmd and hit enter
a dos box will open

copy and paste one of the following comand lines into that run box, depending if you are using boom or prboom or you want to see it in fast speed.

This assumes that you have changed the directory to where your doom2 wad is.

boom.exe -playdemo 30uvnd2440
prboom.exe -playdemo 30uvnd2440
prboom.exe -timedemo 30uvnd2440 < this is fast speed

If you didn't change to that doom2 directory your whole command line might look like this.
d:\doom2\prboom.exe -timedemo 30uvnd2440

Change the d:\ just above to match your own hard drive letter.

enjoy.

edit:typo

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Searcher said:

Open a dos box:
Go to start > run type cmd and hit enter
a dos box will open

copy and paste one of the following comand lines into that run box, depending if you are using boom or prboom or you want to see it in fast speed.

This assumes that you have changed the directory to where your doom2 wad is.

boom.exe -playdemo 30uvnd2440
prboom.exe -playdemo 30uvnd2440
prboom.exe -timedemo 30uvnd2440 < this is fast speed

If you didn't change to that doom2 directory your whole command line might look like this.
d:\doom2\prboom.exe -timedemo 30uvnd2440

Change the d:\ just above to match your own hard drive letter.

enjoy.

edit:typo

If your using prboom you could also use glboom instead of normal prboom since it just looks so much nicer :).

And for those of you installing prboom just to watch this replay, then I highly recommend you get 30uv1441 as THAT is a replay worth watching.

Also I mucked around for an hour or so and nocked up this replay for hell revealed, it's only the first few levels and I'm not trying extremely hard, mainly testing the difficulty etc, currently learning more maps to continue it :)

Edit: Wow grazza we posted almost at the same time as each other :), quite a rarity on these forums

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A few comments on how to watch this demo:

This demo does not play back correctly with Boom (it desyncs on map02). It's a Doom2.exe-format demo, and plays back with Doom2.exe, PrBoom (recent versions) and Eternity.

There are easier ways to watch this demo than by opening a DOS box/command prompt. You can:

  • Drag and drop the lmp file onto prboom.exe (or a shortcut to it)
  • Click on the lmp and then select prboom.exe as the application to open it with
  • Click on the Start button, and then on "Run..." and type (or copy/paste) the command line in there
You can download PrBoom from here.

If you want to get Andrey Budko's modified version of PrBoom (which was used to record the demo, but isn't needed if you just want to watch it) here. It does have some nice features for playback as well though: variable gamespeed (so you can fast forward if you like), walkcam, and the ability to skip to the next level. Not that 24:40 is such a long demo that you'll necessarily want to speed it up or skip bits, of course.

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Has anyone made a proper video (divx, etc) of this speed run? I would love to show it to some co-workers, and Doom isn't readily available.

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RamboBones said:

After much work I have finally improved upon my old doom2 'reality' demo, which was over 2 hours!, to produce this proper speedrun of all 32 levels of doom2 without taking a single bit of damage. The demo can be downloaded here.

This demo is of course tool assisted and was made with Andrey Budko's prboom modification, as well as a tiny bit of help from LMPC on map 16. Any comments on the demo are of course most welcome and although very few people care about 'reality' style demos I encourage people to watch it, as while it's not quite on the same level as Andrey Budko's 30uv1441 it's getting there :)



I just finished watching, wow what can I say...amazing work! Truly impressive! I just had some questions about what tools you used to record the demo. I understand that the programs that are available for demo editing can make some modifications to the game speed and other things. Now I'm not implying anything that you should have maked the demo with several "modifications" I was just wondering if you've used any and what ones in that case. Did you play one level at a time or all levels at once?

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Most of your questions are answered in this thread. I'll just recap (and include a few links and additional explanation):

Tools: Andrey Budko's modified PrBoom (the PrBoom site is here) and Uwe Girlich's LMPC.

Methods: Slow-motion (variable in-game with Budko's version), joining (i.e. resume recording from any point within a demo), permanent strafe-50, and editing via LMPC (LMPC converts a demo to and from text, which can be edited in, e.g., Notepad).

Obviously, only RamboBones himself can say how many times he used joining (-recordfrom), but I imagine he must have done so several (or many) times within most maps. In his initial post, he stated that he only used LMPC at one point (the map16 exit bars glide).

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Yeh slow motion and joining of demos were the two main things I did. I could've LMPCed the starts of every map to get that extra fast take off but...

As to the number of joins I did, it was about 350, and that doesn't include the number of retries for each join. Although the number of joins can be deceptive since some levels such as map 29 I was actually able to do the entire thing first go, yet other seemingly simple levels had a join every couple of seconds, so go figure :)

This is a continuation of my hell revealed run, I'm now up to the lovely arachnatron level. Grazza, if you have any advice on improving my chances at killing these things with 2 shots then let me know, otherwise It'll probably take me a couple of days just to do this on level

Edit: I'll try and take a DivX of 30uvnd2440 when I can, however depending on the size I'm not sure if I'll have available hosting for it.

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I don't know of any cunning tricks to control the RNG with any precision. I think it just involves a lot of recordfroms until it coughs up the result you want.

Perhaps Xit can advise on this, at least from the point of view of how many times you can expect to have to need joining to take down this number of trons optimally.

Are you really hoping to do a No Damage run through the whole of HR? HR map01-10 sounds like a feasible goal, but I suspect a complete HR No Damage run would be a physical impossibility, no matter how much tool-assistance is used. Take map26, for example. The shortcut route on this involves an archie jump, but there is no invulnerability. And with the normal route, you fall into an explosion. But I'm sure there are plenty of other insurmountable obstacles too - in most maps you're under heavy fire with few or no invulnerability spheres. In any case, I'd suggest checking for feasibility before you invest too much time in trying to take this one beyond map10.

BTW, you mentioned episode 1, and the E1M8 problem. In a Max run, the player isn't required to kill any of the monsters in the "death" room, so you could argue, by analogy, that the player just needs to avoid taking any damage up until that room. Just a thought.

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the E1M8 thing (no need to kill the monsters in the exit) makes me think about plutonia map11 ... I know in a single map run it is not necessary to kill the 4 arch viles in the exit. But in a 32-lvl max run it is technically possible to kill them, so are the monsters in E1M8.

can the same rule apply to plut map11 ? and leave the arch viles alive ?

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Well I don't remember doing any killing of arachnotrons in 2 rockets but I did kill them with 3 fists, which is probably comparable. Well what I do is I do one and then finish off with bullets to see how much the first one did. If it did enough damage, then I would continue from there, otherwise just start over. There is no easy way to do this, you will need to spend some time on each monster, so if you want to do hr07 with 2 rockets each then expect to get bored on that map :)

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