Physics Phun.

footman said:

That's exactly the reason people say Doom 3's physics are non-existant and laughable.

Just wait for the expansion pack, buddy. I don't work for id, or Nerve, but I can guarantee the grabber will give Doom 3 a chance to shine in the physics depatment, given the right map/objects/situation. If it doesn't, then you can slap me with a big raw fish.

D3 used its physics in a well-disciplined way. I agree that it was a little underused in a non-subtle way, but the fact that they didn't make it the epicenter of its gameplay says something about the id team. Making their own physics engine while Valve did not also says something about how they manage their resources.

With all the debates about physics this and "what's better" that, try asking yourself this: "What game would I enjoy the most, let alone still enjoy, if neither of these games had ANY physics to speak of?"

Even though I enjoy D3 more than HL2, I think that without it "loud" physics usage, HL2 would be an empty shell without physics. It lacks the atmosphere and attention to detail that D3 has, and while it may be a little more fun that D3, it's not nearly as progressive engine or build-wise.

Relica Religia said:

Even though I enjoy D3 more than HL2, I think that without it "loud" physics usage, HL2 would be an empty shell without physics. It lacks the atmosphere and attention to detail that D3 has, and while it may be a little more fun that D3, it's not nearly as progressive engine or build-wise.

OH GOD ITS TURNING INTO ANOTHER HL2 VERSUS DOOM3 DEBATE

Well, if thats the case then I though HL2's physics use wasn't loud. It just made the world seem so realistic. At first I thought, "oh, the physics engine is going to be a big gimmick" but once i started playing it, its applied to so many objects and parts of the environment that it just makes the world feel more interactive and more real.

And besides, because most of the physics puzzles required you to move breakable objects, there was always an alternative way to solve puzzles without physics/gravity gun usage. There weren't even that many physics puzzles. There were only about 2 or 3 that took over 30 seconds to complete, and even some of them could be done without physics.

And to whoever said theres bad attention to detail in HL2- you clearly haven't been looking.

But I still haven't played D3 yet, and would very much like to.

Nick Perrin said:

But I still haven't played D3 yet, and would very much like to.

Highly recommended :)

I first need the system to do so. Right now, highly unaffordable.

ValVe should be commended for making HL2 so "backwards-compatible."

Off topic, what's your system? Enough to at least play Doom 3 or not?

Last complaint, I promise - I know I'm no mod but couldn't you two sort this out via PM?

DoomUK said:

Off topic, what's your system? Enough to at least play Doom 3 or not?

No. I tried to play the D3 demo, didn't work, and I checked the D3 requirements on the D3 website, I can't run it.

Nick Perrin said:

OH GOD ITS TURNING INTO ANOTHER HL2 VERSUS DOOM3 DEBATE

How can you not know what I'm talking about? When HL2 came out, HL2 forums and even some of the categories of forums here were plagged with these debates.

Well, Doom3 can be ran with lower systems than is in the req, but you might have to turn off stuff that makes all that fantastic looks, like Bumpmapping and lighting. it can all be done though.

I haven't got the links, but a while back someone on these very forums posted some shots of Doom 3 running on some old Voodoo card (can't remember specs). Looked a bit like Quake 2 with really terrible gamma problems.

The point is, you really don't need a high-end PC to play Doom 3.

can someone tell me how to do that then?

specs:
celeron 1ghz
ati radeon 7500 64mb video card
approx 400 mb ram

Well, you've got the demo, right? When you say it didn't work, I assume you mean it didn't even load up. If that's the case you need to use notepad to create and autoexec.cfg in your C:\Program Files\Doom 3 Demo\demo folder. This'll enable you to run Doom 3 on the lowest settings without any problems of not being able to even get into the game to change your settings. It's very easy to do.

1. Open up Notepad

2. Type in (or just cut & paste this...):-

r_mode 3
r_multiSamples 0
image_usePrecompressedTextures 1
image_useCompression 1

3. SAVE AS "autoexec.cfg" without the quotations, very important to select "Save as type: All files" rather than "text document".

That should start the demo up on Low Quality and minimum resolution, with no Anti-aliasing just to be sure.

Note: These commands are from Tweak Guides (http://www.tweakguides.com/Doom3_1.html), if the above still doesn't work there are plantly more tweaks there to get Doom 3 (and many other games, along with many other usefull guides) running on an older machine.

I can see it now once the D3 expansion comes out...

Garry's mod: D3 edition

There are console commands in Doom 3 that allow you to click and drag objects, including character's arms and legs for example. It's really fun propping them up on top of each other and also throwing people around in slow motion (that's also a console command or two)...

I'd have to say the collision in Doom 3 in particular was extremely well done, noticably better then in HL2. I don't know about the stiffness of dead bodies, but each engine seemed to be fairly accurate considering the environments.

arigo said:

I don't think anyone here was comparing iD software to Valve. Ok, so valve bought a physics engine, making a smart choice and admitting they couldn't do such a superb job. iD didn't, and now their "phyics engine" if you want to call it that, is not even comparable. To tell you the truth, while I think hl2 is vastly superior to doom3, I find steam to be absolutely deplorable. Steam and all its mishaps brings Hl2 a tad closer to doom3, but it doesn't fill the entire gap.

I don't get a boner over which company may or may not have better programmers, it's all about which company made the better end game. Now, if you like doom3 better, that's fine. That's your opinion, as my opinion is mine. I do, however, have an onslaught of reasons for my opinion. To all you people that think I shouldn't share my opinion because it's not reflecting of some iD famboy: *grabs crotch*

Then why did you register for these forums if you think HL2 is so great. Go some place where someone cares.

Reap said:

Then why did you register for these forums if you think HL2 is so great.

That's a dumb question.

HE LIKES BOTH!!!!!

Relica Religia said:

With all the debates about physics this and "what's better" that, try asking yourself this: "What game would I enjoy the most, let alone still enjoy, if neither of these games had ANY physics to speak of?"

Late to the party, but what's the point of saying "if [game x] didn't have [notable feature] then it wouldn't be nearly as good"? It's pointless because the game does have that feature, so there's no reason to ignore it. I could just as easily say "Doom 3 wouldn't look nearly as good without the bump mapping and shadows" but hey, it has those features, so it's an empty statement (or, for another more absurd example, "a Ferrari doesn't go fast at all if you remove the engine").

I'd also like to say that I enjoy Half-Life 2 for its atmosphere, level design/progression, overall style, attention to detail, and fantastic scripting. It takes what the original Half-Life did to a much, much greater height, and even though the physics are impressive they're far from the only impressive thing about it. As a matter of fact, I enjoy it for the exact same reasons I enjoy Doom 3... even though they're very different games with very different goals, they achieve those goals with similar means.

WITH THAT SAID (and keeping in mind that I also love Doom 3, because why else would I be here?):

For some reason, the weirdest physics glitches I've seen all involve doors in some way. They just don't like dead bodies.

Nick Perrin said:

That's a dumb question.

HE LIKES BOTH!!!!!

Well why is he flaming Doom 3?

sethsez said:

Late to the party, but what's the point of saying "if [game x] didn't have [notable feature] then it wouldn't be nearly as good"? It's pointless because the game does have that feature, so there's no reason to ignore it. I could just as easily say "Doom 3 wouldn't look nearly as good without the bump mapping and shadows" but hey, it has those features, so it's an empty statement (or, for another more absurd example, "a Ferrari doesn't go fast at all if you remove the engine").

Because it's a valid question. Don't shower my posts with philosophical ego and just try and simply ask yourself what game would be more enjoyable without physics.

You took my question out of its original context. I posted that because of the incessant HL2/D3/physics debates that nobody seems to want to avoid, just to see if anybody would give a straight answer without all the arguments.

Philisophical ego? I said it's a pointless question and I still think it is.

However, to answer it honestly, I'd probably find Doom 3 a bit more enjoyable if neither game had decent physics models (without any physics at all, both games would be unplayable), simply because so many of the things I enjoy in the game (some of the puzzles, the vehicles, the gravity gun) would be ruined, and they're an integral part of the game.

And like I also said, if both games had crappy lighting models I'd enjoy Half-Life 2 more since so much of Doom 3's appeal lies with its atmosphere, and so much of THAT is dependant on the amazing lighting.

Half-Life 2 has better physics. Doom 3 has more impressive lighting. Half-Life 2 does wide-open areas brilliantly. Doom 3 does small, enclosed areas brilliantly. Half-Life 2 throws everything it can at the player and most of it sticks. Doom 3 takes one theme and gets a huge amount of milage out of it. Both games do a damn good job of using their strong points to the fullest. Beyond that, who cares? As they exist now, I think they're both fantastic games and I love 'em equally.

Definitely the two best FPS's of the year, anyway.

And now we all give our "enemy" a hug.....
http://www.forenpics.de/wayne/puseklem.jpg

*yawn* I'll play HL2 when it comes down in price. I'm sure both games are great and both suck at the same time.

I think it's time this thread received its bumpproofing.