The nature of evil.

Evil, as a point of discussion, really is neither "political" nor directly "religious", though many could argue that it lends itself to either catagory. I thought, however, that it might make an interresting discussion, that is if anybody will respond to my posts (which would surprise me).

I guess the first thing to do would be to try to define what good and evil are. I guess this would use the same arguement as I posted for the Freedom of Speech post. Good and evil do exist, but only in the same way each of our "persons" exist... in our minds. Good and evil are determined by each of us based on how we feel about certain actions. If I were to do something that made me feel bad, or if someone else were to do something that made me feel bad, then that could, for me, be defined as "evil". Those things that make me feel better than before could be defined as "good". This is the base state, and things eventually get more complicated.

When humans came into the situation of being in a society with other humans, their concepts of "good" and "evil" had to change to fit the limitations the being among others placed on them. From this point people began to merge their previous beliefs with the beliefs of others- giving mixed results. Religion also fits in here. What served as a way to explain the unknown began to evolve into a way to "persuade" others to follow a similar set of beliefs on what is "right" and "wrong", with a sort of "divine retribution" at stake. Not that this is a bad thing. With similar views it is easier to prevent people from doing "evil" things to one another. I personally believe that religion evolved to a point in which "evil" was blown out of proportion, but that discusion is for another topic.

The key thing out of all this is that "good" and "evil" are very personal views, but at the same time they are very real things. You can't really say that "good" and "evil" cannot exist because they are not concrete, when the "self" is just as intangible and is accepted as being real.

The topic I hope you guys will be argueing is not as much the background I posted above, but your personal views on the nature of good and evil as a "real" state. I'll post my own views a bit later on, after some of you have had time to put in your word.

Good and evil are merely opinions to me. Good usually has the fewer negative consequences (to those involved... outsiders may suffer horribly from actions) or ones that can be deemed justifiable by the masses. Evil can just be for the hell of it ("let's slaughter a few dozen people! Why? I dunno ^.^") or entails more negative consequences with few if any redeemers. I think most humans are inherantly "evil". Being concearned with one's own wellfare can be "evil", but it is also called survival. *Scratches her head* it's a complex thing.....

This is my philosophy:

Evil = Valuing one's self above others, going so far as to harm anyone who gets in your way to accomplish the bettering or holding of your status.

Good = Valuing others above one's self, going so far as to help others even if it means degrading your status.

This may explain why I think religeous zealots are evil. Anyway, I believe that humans start somewhere in between and occasionaly shift one way or the other. Many stay in between, caring for yet not helping others, and valuing theirselves above others, yet not going so far as to harm them.

Just my 2 DM

Naturally I don't agree with danarchist that it's good to value other's above yourself. In terms of abstract good and evil, maybe, yes, but I have no respect for people who value others above self, or in more general cases, value other countries above their own.

Danarchist says that humans start somewhere in between, which I think is true. My only rule is: live however you want, and try to make it the best for yourself, as long as you don't harm others in the process.

Of course this rule is too general, and is probably likely to be misinterpretted like anything else, but basically it means that's it's OK to be rich if you accumulated your wealth honestly, and one doesn't have to feel guilty for being more wealthy than someone else. It also means that when a conflict of interest occurs and someone is bound to get hurt, one should first take care of himself, his family, his country, and not trying to be the best, most generous, because nothing good will come out of that.

Of course life situations are often so much more complicated that's it's hard to say exactly who's right, but sometimes it's not too hard, just people don't want to see that.

This is my philosophy:

Evil = Valuing one's self above others, going so far as to harm anyone who gets in your way to accomplish the bettering or holding of your status.

Good = Valuing others above one's self, going so far as to help others even if it means degrading your status...

I can't help but feel you ripped that from somewere... i could swer i've herd that befor...

This is my philosophy:

Evil = Valuing one's self above others, going so far as to harm anyone who gets in your way to accomplish the bettering or holding of your status.

Good = Valuing others above one's self, going so far as to help others even if it means degrading your status...

I can't help but feel you ripped that from somewere... i could swer i've herd that befor...

D&D 3rd ed., maybe? "Good" and "evil" can't really be defined in any concrete way. It's more of a personal perception. "Good" would describe anything that makes you feel happy, and that you believe would generally make others feel happy. Anything that makes you feel unhappy, and that you cannot resolve into your view of the world, would be classified "evil." Note that these are not exactly opposite definitions.

So what if I've based my philosophies off D&D and Star Trek? :)

For all we know, the creators of those things could have been trying to send us subtle messages...

So what if I've based my philosophies off D&D and Star Trek? :) For all we know, the creators of those things could have been trying to send us subtle messages...

You'v heard of those parental groups and alarmist-types who think D&D is a big Satanic conspiracy, right? My mom was like that; if you think I make stupid, blind judgements... well, you know where I get it from.

I'd heard that Pladium's Rifts uses a much less constricting, much more original alignment system, though I haven't read any of their sourcebooks.

EDIT: All I wanted was a Pepsi...

Beholders Own

Damn, I'm gonna have to add that link to my sig...it's become a cult classic at my school.

I think valuing one's self above everyone else is prime, mainly because it's your life not everyone else's. That's freedom, to recognise and to truly believe that your own life is your own. Evil is malevolence, plain and simple. Pure badness, nothing beneficial. Good is something done for the purpose of benefitting others. I guess that makes me evil, but I've rather be evil than enslaved.