Doom guy = Buddy Dacote?

Is Buddy Dacote, one of the characters mentioned in the Doom Bible, the same person as the Doom guy?

Facts:

• Buddy is sent to the dark side of Tei Tenga for "showing up a superior officer"
  
• Buddy dies at the end of episode 1
  

Buddy Dacote's other names:
-Taradina Casatt

not teh funney

You know what, I'm quite new to doom bible, but wasn't ID trying to have several characters to choose from, exactly like in ROTT?

ellmo said:

You know what, I'm quite new to doom bible, but wasn't ID trying to have several characters to choose from, exactly like in ROTT?

Tom Hall (creative director for id) made the Doom bible. He later (after quitting) put most of those silly ideas into ROTT.

Taradino Casatt was the blonde dude in RoTT and indeed his name based of Taradina from the Doom bible.

Anyways, the question wether Buddy was the prototype of the Doomguy is quite puzzling.
Arguments for:
1.Was sent to Tei Tenga because for showgin up a superior officer. Doomguy did that as well, and the term "Superior officer" is strangely used exactly in both cases.
2.He was sent to Tei Tenga as a security advisor. According to the Doom Manual Doomguy's days also were made of watching monitors.
3.Has a Good sense of humour (RIP AND TEAR! :) j/k)
Arugments against:
1.Buddy is 29. Doomguy appears slightly older.
2.Wears a Hat. Doomguy does not.
3.Buddy dies at end of episode 1. Episode 1 tough is not Knee-Deep in the Dead.

According to the Doom Bible Knee-Deep in Dead was originaly planned as the 3rd of 6 episodes.

Episodes from the Doom Bible:
1.Evil Unleashed
2.Lost in Hell
3.Knee-Deep in The Dead
(All all-out war ensues. You battle your way toward the hangar. Once there, you
take off in an old attack cruiser. You get powerful readings from the gate area and
decide to bomb the gate. You do and both gates flash and break up (One "Gate" is in Phobos Lab and another is obviously the Phobos Anomaly, unless we treat the 2 room the Barons Of Hell aka Bruiser Brothers appear in on the final arena of E1 as the 2 gates..). Then
earthquakes begin. Lava spouts erupt all over. The moon turns into a ruined,firey
ball as you speed off toward the nearest civilized outpost (Deimos Anomaly) )

Everything as we have seen in the final KDITD (almost)
However, looking at it again, Knee Deep in Dead might have become what was originally planned as Evil Unleashed.
-Evil Unleashed and both KDITD start in a hangar
-both end in an "Anomaly"

Besides, the 2 "Bruiser Brothers" are supposed to be guards of the ending of Evil Unleashed and KDITD.

Looks like I've end with speculations.

ellmo said:

You know what, I'm quite new to doom bible, but wasn't ID trying to have several characters to choose from, exactly like in ROTT?

Yes, those were:
Lorelei Chen (who also appeared in a couple other Doom-related places. My memory only brings back an amateur-written Doom movie script, tough much more brilliant than the godawful "incident on Olduvai")
John "Petro" Pietrovich
Dimitri Paramo
Thi Barett (I'm not sure but I think she also appeared in RoTT)
EDIT:
Yes, the characters from Doom Bible appear in Rott. Those are Taradino, Thi and Lorelei.

Use3D said:

Tom Hall (creative director for id) made the Doom bible. He later (after quitting) put most of those silly ideas into ROTT.

Silly meh... didn't notice the bible was from '92
Gonna have to read it some day.

Oh, and NMN, I think I'm also going to write something similar for... you-know-what...

ellmo said:

Silly meh... didn't notice the bible was from '92
Gonna have to read it some day.

It isn't very informative, but contains some interesting things. Rather messed up I'd say. Contains rough pointers to game designers concerning the creation of the first episode (Evil Unleashed) from concept to final.
The texture descriptions are tempting to realise as a new texture pack ;)

ellmo said:

Oh, and NMN, I think I'm also going to write something similar for... you-know-what...

If You do one of my minor dreams will be realised ^^

Yeah it's weird how the Doom Bible basically outlines "realistic" environments and talks about weight rooms and shit. Especially when I find the fact that Doom didn't try to ape realistic locations to be one of its major strengths.

Buddy Dacote is also one of the reasons why I think that the doomguy "dies" at the end of Ep1.

Linguica said:

Buddy Dacote is also one of the reasons why I think that the doomguy "dies" at the end of Ep1.

Seing this in a slightly insane view he might have died really. Remember that all military volunteers entering the gateways that linked Phobos and Deimos came out as zombies. Perhaps in the latter parts of the game we play as a zombie really... or at least not so human as we were before entering the gateways.

Nah I assumed he just was too tough to be zombified :P

No, not zombiefied.

But he died at the end of E1 (what the HELL? I killed all of those retards in that small dark room!), and gone to hell. Mostly for kicking new asses. He got the demons killed, and he left Hell to come back to Earth...

I always put this as simple as that.

He's a demon then. Whatever came from hell can't be human (he came back to Earth trough the portal at the end of Ultimate Doom). Or can it be?

How can he preserve his body then? If we're operating in terms of hell and heaven we're in the areas of Christian religion which clearly states that only the soul goes to hell and not the body.

This could be explained in a thousand abstractial ways that he was chosen by God or whoever wanted to not let the invasion happen and he preserved his body, but it is too paradoxal and imaginery so I must disagree with the theory saying he died.

However, noticed how the walls of hell are decorated with human flesh? According to the religion no body can get into hell. Perhaps those parts are "souls'" parts? Perhaps in the outworlds (If we may call them that way) souls appearance is almost exact to our material form? Doomguy would preserve his body then, but this is only a theory.

Deimos however was in hell. It has been teleported into hell as it is stated in the manual ("Deimos simply vanished from the sky"). It was probably the result of the gateways built around the anomalies. Presumably the demons moved it to hell to have a good teleportation point from there onto Phobos and into our world. But if it was to hell and Doomguy, dead, would make it to hell that would match up.

Honestly I'm left with the belief he was too tough to die and was just teleported to the hell dimensions.

...
And who said Doom's story is bland? :)

Interesthing theory. To be honest I thought they put that ending on E1 to make people go "what the hell just happened? I must register my copy of Doom and find out, poste haste!" Maybe I'm too cynical.

Nmn said:
(One "Gate" is in Phobos Lab and another is obviously the Phobos Anomaly, unless we treat the 2 room the Barons Of Hell aka Bruiser Brothers appear in on the final arena of E1 as the 2 gates..)

Phobos Lab? You mean the big pentagram that teleports you back to the start? In which case there's another "gate" on E1M9

Intriguingly, apart from those locations and the end of E1M8, there's nowhere else in E1 where anything teleports. Never noticed that before

RjY said:

Phobos Lab? You mean the big pentagram that teleports you back to the start? In which case there's another "gate" on E1M9

Yes, but the gate on e1m9 doesn't teleport You anywhere right? It does teleport monsters tough..

I presume those were plain teleportation devices used commonly in the future (hence they are used on Earth in Doom 2) and the powers of anomalies or whatever on Phobos and Deimos just increase their strength, i.e. disances of their connection, even trough different dimensions. So the teleporters were working fine on small distances until hell interferred making the portals very far-reaching, in my opinion that is. So the next question is-why does Phobos lack in teleporters (only 2, opposed to the plethora of them on Earth and Deimos)

Nmn said:

*some crap abot body and soul, and hell and blah, blah, blah*

I'm glad to be the primary DRD_team scriptwriter... you just don't use imagination ^_^

ellmo said:

I'm glad to be the primary DRD_team scriptwriter... you just don't use imagination ^_^

Yes, a fine way of making Yourself look dumb. Again. Whenever imagination comes to play a proper way of explaining things much more influences the reader/viewer or whomever, or at least a decent connection with reality. You can leave total abstraction for You own use, but as Grubber mentioned, me and him like to have things explained.

Whenever I mention Christian religion people seem to blush out with agressive behavior, but I'm not going to rant here. I have written what is presumed and classified in the Theologism area as a fact. In Christianism You have hell and heaven, in Greek You've got Hades and Panteon, in Viking You have Valhalla and so on (maybe the comparsions are not fully equal, but I hope You get the point).

//offtopic
Keep in mind You're developing the script for the past 9 months with little progress and I'm really willing to remove You from the position, being the leader. That and secrecy You're wiling to brake.

Thanks for reading.

Linguica said:
Yeah it's weird how the Doom Bible basically outlines "realistic" environments and talks about weight rooms and shit. Especially when I find the fact that Doom didn't try to ape realistic locations to be one of its major strengths.

Well, Hall was working from scratch and he was trying to give the rest of id an easily referenced cohesive picture from where to start, and the rest comes from the limitations of making the game, of which John Carmack was the first to speak up about.

Perhaps if the design would have gone more in Halls line some of the artifacts described might have somehow appeared in the end, but while such descriptions may not have ended up fitting in the game, they did quite certainly move the artists and designers to shape their work relatively consistently.

But yeah, a relation between Dacote and the doomguy is undeniable; even the hair color fits in. I've never even liked explanatory story etrapolations, like for instance whether the hero dies or not when it definitely isn't clear, but development references like this one are quite cool.

Nmn said:

So the next question is-why does Phobos lack in teleporters (only 2, opposed to the plethora of them on Earth and Deimos)

May be Deimos was the main station for teleportation experiments, Phobos could be just used for long distance teleportations (from Deimos to Phobos), and some minor testing. With that abundance of teleporters in Deimos, the demons could easier teleport the whole moon into hell.

About the teleports on Earth, they could be just short distance teleporters, unlike these at the moon bases with secret and higher tecnology.

My question now is, how did demons get to Earth, if they needed all that trouble to get to Phobos?

Only the demon spawner had to get to Earth.

quite right. It only takes one of the Demon Spawner to create an army. All he needs is a secluded cave to spawn millions of pinkies and imps and everything else.

Maybe doomguy found a way to use a different gate to return to earth and so was not zombified

BUT EARTH HAD NO SPAWN SPOTS!?

No! You revealed the flaw in Doom's logic. Now I cannot play it ever again.

:(

Nmn said:

Keep in mind You're developing the script for the past 9 months with little progress and I'm really willing to remove You from the position, being the leader. That and secrecy You're wiling to brake.

Oh, tough guy? ^_^ Yeah, you have the position mr. Leader, and I won't go insane if you do that. The question is... Don't you really see how much fucking work I have already put in it? How many optional and alternative stories I have dealt with?

Oh, and tell me one more time I broke the secrecy, cuz I don't really remember.

ellmo and Nmn: this internal dispute you seem to be having doesn't really belong here. Why not keep it to PMs, e-mail, etc.?

I think Grazza is right.

Geez! It's a non-professional mod for a 12-year old game! Chill out. People are doing this for fun, so it might take them a long time if they don't work at it like nuts.

Linguica said:

Yeah it's weird how the Doom Bible basically outlines "realistic" environments and talks about weight rooms and shit. Especially when I find the fact that Doom didn't try to ape realistic locations to be one of its major strengths.

Buddy Dacote is also one of the reasons why I think that the doomguy "dies" at the end of Ep1.

Carmack and Romero wanted it to be simple so they put the lid on Hall's stupid ideas and that's when he left and made ROTT, and we can easily see here how id made the right decision as ROTT is .. really stupid.

kristus said:

Carmack and Romero wanted it to be simple so they put the lid on Hall's stupid ideas and that's when he left and made ROTT, and we can easily see here how id made the right decision as ROTT is .. really stupid.

I think they made Rise of The Triad stupid on purpose. Everything about it just seems like one big (and sometimes stupid) joke

Yeah, Tom Hall really loves to joke it up. But IMO it goes way overboard.

Yeah, although the doom bible has stuff that can be found in ROTT, ROTT is nothing like what doom was in the doom bible.