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cycloid

1killtng uv speed semi-pack released [was: imps!]

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edit:

at my web site (see sig), was waiting for an exit on map09 before letting you all see. done uv speed runs on maps 01,02,03,07 and 09. 03 and 07 i plan to revisit. 08 i'm thinking about and the rest in the wad (12+) i havent checked out yet but thought i'd get on with it. so look out for updates as i tackle some more of these maps.



original first post:

why dont they f**king die and get out of the f**king way ffs f**k!?!?!?

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I understand your frustration, but if you'd like some suggestions for how to handle a particular situation, you'll need to be a bit more specific.

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and it's not like when they scratch you you can just shrug it off and slide by cos they always corner you on a doorframe/lamp/more imps. bah!






...


anyway got one of those annoying speed runs that doesnt look too fast in places but is just impossible to beat due to aforementioned imp trouble... all will be revealed

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heh, calmer now, got a good exit on map02. on both maps i've had an exit where you're literally one inch from the switch and you think you've done it but the scren falls down to reveal... the start of the map ... noooo! on map02 would have ben my first exit bugger!

yeah i know i havent said the wad, but i want it to be a surprise, and 2 maps out of a megawad isnt much progress is it :-)

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I feel your pain. I would list the monster-blocking (or monster-stickiness) as possibly the most annoying part of speedrunning.
You wish to slide right off them, but nooooo...
gl with Map03. :D

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Heh, I think it was AdamH who once said he thought imps were the most random-behaving enemies.

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The worst monsters as far as blocking goes, are mancubuses, arachnotrons and masterminds, since you can get stuck on them without even seeing them (they're much fatter than they appear to be, heh).

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yes, perfectly ... he's speaking about recording speedrun demos...

for casual playing with saves, imps are not that annoying

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got an exit on map03, though it's possible to slash the time if only i could get an exit using a "charge headlong past a horde of chaingunners" technique

map04 was easy to subvert, 17 seconds my first exit

gonna skip 5 and 6 for the moment as they're very large and inolved (i.e. key at one end of maze like map, door at other to get another key to open door right at the start again)

pain is the author has gone to great lengths to block all windows and openings with impassable linedefs, ALL of them! bah!

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cycloid said:

pain is the author has gone to great lengths to block all windows and openings with impassable linedefs, ALL of them! bah!


yeah that sucks... bad mentality on this side

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quite a few of the maps in the wad i'm running are of the aforementioned slug-it-out variety, there ARE a couple of tricks on a few of the maps so far so what i'll do is get exits on all the maps i fancy then post them online. was origionally planning a whole demo set but starting to think it's beyond me now :-(

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got an exit on map07, should really have cleaned up and made it a max i suppose because i faced down 6 free roaming arch viles and the resulting resurrected monster hoarde. not something i've managed before esp as it includes one moment when i'm trapped between a vile and an arachnotron with only a rocket launcher (splash damage!) and have to blast my way to safety... needless to say i was shaking at the end of it! but there is a vile jump on this map that i've done in iddqd and in this first exit i saved the megasphere until i released said archies, should be a doddle :-)

there's at least one more map i think i can get an exit on which involves running the gauntlet through a lava maze armed only with a megasphere (alas the rad suits are locked away!). there may be other ones in the wad that i'm happy to run (there's an E4M1 style keygrab in one map but otherwise it's still quite involved, tempting...) once i have a collection of exits (perfected or otherwise) on all the maps i fancy then all will be revealed. hopefully in the next day or two (imminently due baby notwithstanding!)

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These seem to be mostly speed-unfriendly maps, so it's a brave choice of wad for a speed pack. I always find this sort of run very hard to judge - how much to stop and kill, and when just to run and trust everything to luck.

BTW, on map04, you can strafe-50 through the critical linedef, and so run to the exit directly. I got a 0:05 nomo and a 0:08 UV Speed that way (not recording and playing fairly casually for a few minutes, so these times should be readily improvable).

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i did have a go at map04 that way but never have got the hang of strafe-50 running. tried rearranging my keys and having a go specially too. ho hum.

i found this wad in an old thread where i was asking for uv max able maps, heh, but after maps 1 thru 4 proved speed runnable i was dissapointed to find that the rest were mainly big key hunts and very linear, but it's kept me amused at least. very proud of my map09 effort, there was a lot of monster-trust involved in getting that one. i have now learnt that on average cacodemons turn left more often than not! or at least that's what that run relied on to work!

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I've just looked at some of the later maps in this wad, and the final one, map20, looks very speed-friendly. One of those where, if you're fast enough, you just make it through doors before they close, big missiles hit the wall just behind you, and swarms of monsters aren't quite in time to block you off, etc.

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You've got some nice demos on that wad. The levels are very nice, not nearly as huge as some megawad maps are so I decided to take a crack at trying to make some non tas demos for it. Currently I only have level 1 done in 37 seconds. I'm e-mailing the file to opulent.

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might check 20 out then, had a look through a few more last night and every time i spot a potential speed trick the only way to get to it is to get at least one of the keys... and the only way to get that is to get another... and darnit! i'm paranoid about my own (20 level) megawad now, i've had 2 keys in one map but generally my built in speed tricks have been fairly minor shortcuts. but so far my maps have been around the size of the first 4 in this wad here. dont want to end up like this wad where it'd be ok if only there was just one shortcut or grab or subvertible trap here or there as opposed to none at all!

rambobones: kudos for beating my map01 time, though my demos arent TAS like it seems you're suggesting, unless you're saying that you usually do TAS runs and you're not doing these that way for a change? in which case i'll shut up :-)

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cycloid said:
rambobones: kudos for beating my map01 time, though my demos arent TAS like it seems you're suggesting, unless you're saying that you usually do TAS runs and you're not doing these that way for a change? in which case i'll shut up :-) [/B]

Yeh all my previous released demos have been exclusively tas/built demos.

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cycloid said:

might check 20 out then, had a look through a few more last night and every time i spot a potential speed trick the only way to get to it is to get at least one of the keys... and the only way to get that is to get another... and darnit!

On map20 you do need all three keys (unless I'm missing some megatrick), but you can collect them quickly - a quick "in and out" (no need to kill anything) for two of them, and you just need to take down a SMM with the plasma gun to get the other one (at least I presume there's no way to get the key while the spider lives).

cycloid said:

i'm paranoid about my own (20 level) megawad now, i've had 2 keys in one map but generally my built in speed tricks have been fairly minor shortcuts. but so far my maps have been around the size of the first 4 in this wad here. dont want to end up like this wad where it'd be ok if only there was just one shortcut or grab or subvertible trap here or there as opposed to none at all!

I think a major part of the problem (judging from what I've seen in your demos and a quick look through some of the maps on my own) is that health is generally very limited. Take map08 for instance. There are at least two tricks that could speed things up there, but it would be very difficult to run through the map without slowing down greatly at many points because your health would tick away rather quickly.

Of course, putting in too much health isn't a good way to solve that problem, but what you can do is put in some big power-ups that (for a Max) are intended to be used for a big battle where the player is bound to take some damage if he stands and fights. If you make it so in a speedrun these battles are partially or wholly skippable, then power-ups can instead be used by the player to help run a good portion of the way to the exit.

Another way to make it more speed-friendly is to keep the proportion of hitscan enemies low, as the player then has more chance of running past the monsters without taking much damage. And obviously avoid narrow corridors.

Also, if you keep the layout fairly open (with plenty of height variation), the areas well inter-connected, and include a decent archie population, then there will probably be a few shortcut possibilities even if you have not put them in deliberately.

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