Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Combustable

Map01: Good or bad

Recommended Posts

I have to ask even though i'm sure i'm just askign for trouble. Doom2 map01, do you like it, like it's apparently fairly well known cult following of players, or are you like me and think its just a pointless spawnkill fest.

My opinion for one, is that its just a bad map, and that it's cult following seems to be a lot of dmers with considerable skill who decided to practice this tiny little map until they could completely rule is effortlessly against everyone, except other people who spent all their time practicing. I think it has no pros, and it's cons include poor weapon balance, with the one spawn point with, for some reason, the rocket launcher, ssg and bfg, all together. The spawn points are also very close together, making spawn kills easy with a little practice, and as there is only one route through the entire map, its impossible to evade anyone else, making the person who's been fragged, probably get killed quite a few other times struggling to get a decent weapon.

While i've heard that this map is a test of skill for all the best players, making it the best map for proving one's skill, i completely disagree. All it proves to me is that someone can specialize on a map, and be an elitist jerk about it.

On a side note, i think this elitist crap with DM encourages taking games way to seriously, which is a trap i've fallen in myself. Remember everyone, its just a game, and treat it as nothing else, or no one has a good time.

Share this post


Link to post

Years ago I considered Map01 to be a terrible DM map -- dead-ends and a frustrating weapon imbalance.
After getting better at the game and mostly watching good players on the map, I have a better appreciation for it.
Map01 has a unique balance for players of higher skill. The wall-slide, the controlling of the two corridors. The spam of rockets and plasma versus the deadliness of a close-combat SSG, etc...
Just like the Quake games(dm4, dm6, q2dm1, q3dm6tmp, etc...) a very good player trumps the gameplay into a winner's outs competition... the games are often a swing of control and that can result in a very one-sided match even if the players are of comparable skill.
In short, it is a classic quality map for DOOM DM... actually, it is THE classic map.
note: the map cannot be taken seriously in any other mode than 1x1 IMVHO.

(and every gaming group has their elitist players... some groups (quake2) more than others. Where it appears there are more assholes than respectable players.)

Share this post


Link to post

I'll play it on occasion but I usually get it handed to me pretty badly. Although I am starting to learn some interesting tactics.
With any luck, I'll have a change of heart and like it more.

With all it's faults, it was begging to be remade when D2 came out. Too bad only a handful of them were ever any good.

Share this post


Link to post

The popularity of this map is strange. "No dead ends" is one of the staples of DM mapping, yet this particularly level is full of them...

Share this post


Link to post

The way I see it, what probably happened is that a fairly good player found out that, with a little practice, and exploiting a few of of map01's many annoyances, he could easily defeat any "laydoomer" who didnt practice this cheap strategy, giving the illusion of amazing skill, while really just showing skill in one map. Now that they can show off the illusion of skill, they can gain a lot of respect from people who don't analyze the situation much, see this person of "sill" as obviously wiser than they are, and immediately suppose they're right, spreading this rumor that Map 01 is the proof of one's skill.

In other words, ruling at map 01 proves nothing except you can spawn kill. If you apply this same logic to basketball maybe, team 01 says that they're the best, because they're undefeated in home games. La dee da, because what if they suck playing at any other place.

So my main points are 1: map 01 isnt great just because the people who specialize specifically in playing it win all the time, specifically there, say it is. 2:Just because you're good at map01 doesnt mean you're immediately a pro. 3: Stop being sheep.

Note that I don't intend to imply that everyone who plays map01 either sucks, or just flocks after the other people who like it. Just that it takes relatively little skill to get good at a tiny map like that, to beat somone who hasn't practiced it, than to get good at any map you may end up playing on

Share this post


Link to post

But, as you say, it's a "tiny map", so almost anybody could spend a little time to become skilled at only map01, but few do become that good, so your hypothesis doesn't stand.(imo)

Share this post


Link to post

What I mean is just because you DON'T doesnt mean you CANT. I'm saying it's not difficult to learn how to do. A little bit of practice and you could fairly easily learn all the little tricks of the map. Most people dont want to, so they go play another map. Because they havent learned to, other people are better at map 01 than they are, and could beat them, even if the player who hasn't learned may be much better than them on any other map.

Share this post


Link to post
Dr. Zin said:

Few become that good because they can't stand playing the same map all of the time.

That's the excuse.

Share this post


Link to post

I like it. Played many a time in it and it's still a lot of fun. Plus it has a load of kickass demos for it, and practice makes perfect. Additionally, the non-open structure (with dead ends) gives it a tight feel that is lost in most maps that have a much more circular form of play.

Probably the DM map I've had most fun in. So, it's the best map there is.

Share this post


Link to post

There seems to be a really important element that you don't get here.

Doom 2 is a game.

People are free to play it how they wish.

If there was no skill involved in playing Map01, players wouldn't be consistently better than other players in it.

If you think that the skill required to become good in map01 is trivial and stupid, then that is your opinion. Do not play map01; nobody is forcing you to.

If players claim they are better than you, but will not play you on the maps that you like to play, then dismiss their claims. It is not your fault that they won't back up their words with action, is it?

I have personally found that the intense, tight gameplay of map01 has made me a much better player overall because to be good at map01 you have to focus on the following elements: 1) You need to be fast, 2) You have to be able to aim good, 3) You have to react quickly, 4) You have to think on your feet to get yourself out of a really tricky situation.

And you know, even when I have all the weapons on that map, and ocelot is cornered with a pistol, I'll be fucking damned if I could kill him. This goes for every single map01 god I've ever played. They are fast little fuckers and can get past you to get a big weapon and then shove it down your throat before you know what happened. I'm sure if the map was different and more open, and they had better weapons I would stand much more of a chance though.

Share this post


Link to post

Heh, you tighted up with ocelot in map01 is like a hungry tiger and you in a small small room. :P

Share this post


Link to post

Map1 is great.

It's a smallish (but not super small), linear map that forces you to focus on the intricate details of clean movement, reaction time, aiming under pressure, strategy, map and respawn domination, and knowing where your opponent is.

The map is so small and linear, and your opponent is frequently so in-your-face, that little fuckups that would be meaningless on, perhaps, Dwango5 Map1, are very likely to get you punished harshly on Map1.

Not everyone likes the kind of gameplay that Map1 lends itself to. People who do not enjoy the map and are not moderately skilled at it are not the ones who will be able to make accurate judgements as to why it is played and the meanings behind its gameplay.

--BahdKo

Share this post


Link to post

map 01 was pretty good, small, tight and brutal.
Was too eazy to dominate (for me that is) and it was not fair to lower skilled players.
When you put 2 top gun players it was interesting.
Fast, fast fast, we used to do 2 vs 2 all the time and it was unreal non-stop action
My fav was map 11, 07, 01, and a few more that I played over the years.
I had to play pretty much all of them, ppl would call me from all over the usa and ask me if I would play them on **their map**.

Share this post


Link to post

Now, the interesting question to ask would be:

Is there anything makers of DM maps could learn from Doom 2 Map01's example?

As stated before quite a few things about map01 run afoul of conventional DM mapmaking wisdom, such as the lack of connectivity. Yet the map is a true classic.

Share this post


Link to post

I kinda like it in DM. If you have a lot of players, it can be fun. Co-Op absolutely sucks in D2 01. D2 02 is fun in co op.

Share this post


Link to post

I agree with a lot of whats been said already, however I think theres somethign obvious were missing here

all of map01's complains would be deleted if the designers had simlpy doen the obvious: connect the exit and starting poitns!

That map is currently a circle, broken by the exit door, it woudl feel a lot less "dead ended" if it was connected

thats why i love dwangos version so much

Share this post


Link to post

It doesn't matter if there are dead ends, it's a small map and the other player will spawn one place or another anyway. I don't think the dead-ends themselves are a negative thing about DM maps, it's the flow that's important, if player 2 doesn't spawn in one dead end, player 1 will look for him in the other. There are only 2 so it's work great for 1on1.

As for weapon balance, it becomes a test of skill when you're up against BFG with your SSG and RL. It can't all come down to who has the biggest guns all the time.

I would've put some health in the outdoor area though, and maybe a SSG or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Opulent said:

note: the map cannot be taken seriously in any other mode than 1x1 IMVHO.

Lies, it's an excellent CTF map.

Share this post


Link to post

The problem with map01 is that people are so used to playing Quake-like games where open maps are the standard. People, Doom isn't Quake, for fun maps you can use some mapping principles from Quake, but when it comes right down to it, making 'good' maps for Doom 2 is a totally different story and usually does involve dead ends and such.

Good maps create options. Some maps create options artificially, by having ten million different ways from point A to point B. However, in Doom, options also means weapon tricks. MAP01 has few manuvering options, but although you're stuck in a cramped level, it has many MANY options weaponwise.

Spawnkilling isn't a bad thing either, there are only so many times in a row you can do it, so it's not too abusable, and it makes dying that much more of a consiquence against a good player who can keep them up. In my opinion, spawnkilling is fine as long as the map isn't broken and MAP01 certainly isn't broken.

Also, anecdotal evidence does seem to say that skill level increases much quicker when playing on map01 than on any other map.

Share this post


Link to post

The reason that map01 became popular is pretty obvious - it's the first map that people played on when doom2 came out. Then by map 12 or 13 it was time to quit and go back to map01 since the maps are getting too big for 1-on-1.

A week or two later, people have begun to realize that map01 is one of the better maps in doom2.wad to deathmatch on. Over the next few months, they have started to use a lot of different pwads, and by now map01 is probably [along with map07] the only doom2.wad map that they're still using.

By now they're probably connecting off and on with a lot of different players, and this is when they realize: other players have other pwads. Except for one thing: map01. Everyone has DMed a lot on - it's more familiar to everyone than any other map. Because it's in common, it gets played a lot - people begin to develop increasing skill on it.

Fast forward ten years later. By now map01 play has long-since passed beyond the realm of the normal and become such a benchmark that you can't seperate it from the game. Legendary demos still make the rounds.

But the new player, who wasn't around back in the day or at any time since - until now - doesn't know any of that, and hence doesn't get it. All he knows is that he gets his butt kicked and that many people seem to regard map01 play as something akin to the Jedi lightsaber cadence.

And then he is further confused by all the people who want to pretend that map01's success is due to its design and not the random fact of it being <A> map01 and <B> small.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm in the process of actually trying to learn this map, and for some reason it takes much longer than any other map ive tried to learn. I tihnk the real problem is players try to learn other regularly played maps, and come back to realize that many of the "better" players got started on this map. So they try to learn it and get slaughtered, and get turned off of it because of that. Its a great map to learn and play, just hard when playing a good player.

Share this post


Link to post

Map02 is somewhat crouched (having at least some open and relatively flat space is good for DM) and, like many other (DM) maps, is circular in design. Also, even if it's relatively small some areas make it sprawl a bit since they aren't well connected.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×