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Ebon

Shores of Hell better quality than Inferno?

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Hello, I just came in to these forums recently (been to PlanetDOOM, which focuses on DOOM3.)

I've been thinking about something of classic DOOM: do you think episode 2 is better designed and also tougher than episode 3?
That's because E2's levels were fairly solid, while E3 has fairly controversial levels (E3M2, E3M5 or E3M7.)

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Generally speaking, I've always preferred E2 to E3. Not only in terms of level layout, architecture and progression, but music as well.

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E2 is much better becaues a large percent of the maps in that Episode were designed by Tom Hall (whose maps had a ton of effort put into them and were designed to be realistic before the Half Lifeish original plans were scrapped), not Sandy "I don't know what the fuck I'm doing" Petersen.

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Personally I always found that E3 seemed a bit random as far as the levels. You never knew when you'd see wood, metal, brick, or flesh on the walls around you. E3's final level is far more boring than E2's. At least E2 has the fear of the Cyberdemon left intact. On E3M8 it's basically BFG fight, and that's no fun (unless there's a lot of them ;) ).

E2 also has that wonderful level we call E2M2.

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E1 > Doom 2 > E2 > E3 > E4

E2 is awesome in places, but is too uneven (E2M7 and E2M9... brrr).

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lerner said:

E3's final level is far more boring than E2's.

In fact it's the other way around if you play them from scratch (50 bullets, pistol, 100 health.) At least so I felt. Since I can defeat the Cyber with no loss of health, while the Spider can kill me in a couple of seconds if it catches me after killing a caco.

BTW, I think Inferno is supposed to be random, since it takes place in Hell.

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I generally find it to be the opposite for me (if I start those maps with a pistol, that is). On E2M8, one rocket will end my game real quick, and those Lost Souls are just annoying. On E3M8, I can runall the way around the outer ledge without firing a shot and maybe take a couple of hits before the Spiderdemon turns its attention to one of the other enemies. Once I get to the center, I pick up the armor and plasma gun and blast it until it's dead.

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That's the beauty of E3M8. Wrong strategy may severely damage, even kill you; while quick acting means you'll win without a scratch.

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Graf Zahl said:

E1 > E4 > E2 > E3 > Doom2.


Almost the same here, except:

E1 > E4 > E2 > Doom 2 levels not by Sandy Petersen > E3 > Doom 2 levels by Sandy Petersen.

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I just really liked Command Center, Spawning Vats and Halls of the Damned. Good music, good levels imo.

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NiGHTMARE said:

Almost the same here, except:

E1 > E4 > E2 > Doom 2 levels not by Sandy Petersen > E3 > Doom 2 levels by Sandy Petersen.



If you make that distinction for Doom 2 it'd be the same for me

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NiGHTMARE said:

Almost the same here, except:

E1 > E4 > E2 > Doom 2 levels not by Sandy Petersen > E3 > Doom 2 levels by Sandy Petersen.

Ya mean by looks and detail, right?
I'm not sure; 'The Factory' (by Petersen) looks pretty and stylish... old and featureless, as a deserted factory is supposed to look like. EDIT: but yeah, monster placement is alot better in levels like Indus-zone (if not too easy...)
EDIT 2: WOW, since the first edit it was posted again! I could stay all day on these forums!

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Personally I thought the quality of levels declined as I played through Doom. E1 was great, E2 was good, E3 was just okay, and I didn't like E4 at all.

I think if I had to rank them it'd be something like...

E1 > TNT > Plutonia > E2 > E3 > E4 > Doom 2

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Graf Zahl said:

E1 > E4 > E2 > E3 > Doom2.

Most definitely agreed.

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I don't see why people like E4 so much. It looks OK, but the gameplay is pretty much the stiffest in all of Doom. It also has sucky secrets, uses rehashed music, and the final level is immensely lame.

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Psycho Siggi said:

Why does every one like E4 so much?

Maybe because it reminds you of DOOM 2--yet it's DOOM 1. E4m1 is like a smaller waste tunnel/inmost den; e4m2 is Living End condensed; e4m3 - abridged Industrial Zone and so on. If I'm not wrong, people think DOOM 2 is more maturely designed than original DOOM 1.

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E1 > E2 > TNT > Doom 2 > Plutonia > E3 > E4

Ugh, I hated E3 and E4... Dunno, gothic\hell levels just aren't my cup of tea. This all reminds me, it's been far too long since I've played through Doom 2. I should do that some time...

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I liked..
e2> E3>Plutonia>E1> Doom2>E4>TNT
E4 I didnt get the story behind and it was very stiff gameplay.

note on doom 2,the first 2 thirds were ok and stand in order as they are but the last third was on par with e3.

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Deimos Lab (e2m4) is one of my favourite Doom levels, regarding athmosphere and layout. But many of the E2 levels are inferior to Romero´s E1 levels. I think it´s Sandy Petersen´s fault, because his Quake1 maps just look as inconsistant and pointless (last epsiode of Quake), though the core structure and gameplay of his levels usually isn´t bad at all.

I never really liked E3, E4 is the better hell episode IMO, with much better architecture.

And Doom2 has many of my all-time favourite levels, including The Chasm, The Crusher, and Tenements. I´m also slightly more nostalgic towards Doom2 because it was the first Doom game I played back in the day, and it got me into FPS.

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Tetzlaff said:

I never really liked E3, E4 is the better hell episode IMO, with much better architecture.

And Doom2 has many of my all-time favourite levels, including The Chasm, The Crusher, and Tenements. I´m also slightly more nostalgic towards Doom2 because it was the first Doom game I played back in the day, and it got me into FPS.

Umm, I (and others too) think 'Thy Flesh Consumed' takes place on Earth (same sky as in the bunny screen, at least), so that it's an unusual prequel to 'Hell on Earth.' Well, levels like 'Sever the Wicked' or 'Against Thee Wickedly' look pretty earthly to me...

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E1 > E2 > E3 > Doom II

E1 because of the great memories of the Shareware version and the unparalled atmosphere of E1M8. E2 because of E2M3 and E2M8.

I prefer E2 to E3 because on the whole I find the levels more interesting and atmospheric.

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So I see people here do like Shores of Hell. On Inferno's defence, I think it's very cool with -fast. All weapons, all artifacts, lots of pinkies.
E3M3 is fun. E3M5 (my E3 favourite) is quite creepy with -fast. Believe it or not, E3M7 is (if not) the hardest on Nightmare for E3... None however is terribly hard to play. That was id Software's intention. Fun not hard.

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Ebon said:

Umm, I (and others too) think 'Thy Flesh Consumed' takes place on Earth (same sky as in the bunny screen, at least), so that it's an unusual prequel to 'Hell on Earth.' Well, levels like 'Sever the Wicked' or 'Against Thee Wickedly' look pretty earthly to me...


But then Pandemonium looks pretty earthly as well, and the main texture and architecture style in epsiode 4 is clearly gothic hell style. But you are probably right, maybe episode 4 is set on earth locales that are infested and changed by hellspawn, just like most of the Doom2 levels.

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