Siggi Posted July 7, 2005 When a new mega-wad comes out, what qualities make it worthy of hectic demo recording? Is it purely a popularity thing? It seems to me that the trend is around pwads made to be compatable with doom2.exe and contain very dificult maps. If I wanted to make a mega-wad specifically for speed runs, what sort of technique should I use. Although I'll probably never submit any good demos, I am really curious as to what makes all the demo people tick. 0 Share this post Link to post
Erik Posted July 7, 2005 Well, noone stops anyone from recording on any map. However, most people want to record maps that either are of high quality or are of particular interest for any other reason (peculiar trick, sentimental value, rare wad etc). 0 Share this post Link to post
Grazza Posted July 7, 2005 Above all, the maps need to be fun to play. Often you can quickly tell if a map is one where demos are going to be good to watch (which is one motivation for recording, though not necessarily the overriding one). Generally this means that you can blast (or just run) through it, possibly pulling off some nice tricks, or beating the odds by overcoming heavy resistance. A map that requires ultra-cautious, slow play will probably not lend itself to entertaining demos, even if they are very skilfully made. Personally, I prefer recording on maps where there is scope for creativity in the choice of route. A map certainly doesn't have to be hard to be demo-friendly. Look at TVR! for example - mostly nice easy maps, but very demo-friendly as they have excellent connectivity and well planned gameplay that means there is hardly any "dead" time in the demos. Edit: Real World (RW) is another good example. Maps that require a specific port tend to be a bit less popular for demo recording because demo compatibility between versions is a very low priority for most port makers. It's a bit dispiriting to record a demo only to find a few days later that it doesn't play back with the most recent version of the port in question (and it's even worse if the version on which it does play back isn't even available for download anywhere). There's also the point that many of the tricks that we hold dear and have practiced so much are based on Doom2.exe "bugs" that are "fixed" in some ports. 0 Share this post Link to post
Siggi Posted July 7, 2005 If some one put together a wad specifically for demos (ie has high potential for tricks and 'smooth' game play), would it be accepted well? Obviously I'm talking about something that has had allot of effort and planning put into it. (Deus Vult comes to mind for some reason :p) Ever since I found out about how active the demo recording is for Doom. I've considered it one the highest honours someone could have as a mapper - to know that the playability of one of your maps is such that everyone is in contest to see who can get the best times for it on the highest (or higher) skill levels. Some of the demos I'v watched recently are simply amaizing (Kama Sutra's Demopack being the most recent),, I guess they've kind of encouraged my interest in Doom again. 0 Share this post Link to post
Searcher Posted July 8, 2005 IT is a tremendous honor to watch some of the best players in the world do stuff to one of your maps that you had never envisioned when building it. Be sure and record demos of your maps as they are built to try and retain that recording ability all the way thru it. I make close to 50 demos of my maps as they are being built, It helps to fine tune gameplay and ammo and health etc. By the time one of my maps is ready for release I have played it at least 200 times. I know it plays. ;) It helps to have playtesters that are demo recorders to play test the final pre release for the last time before release. Their suggestions are pure gold to a mapper. 0 Share this post Link to post
Opulent Posted July 9, 2005 Psycho Siggi said:When a new mega-wad comes out, what qualities make it worthy of hectic demo recording? Is it purely a popularity thing? It seems to me that the trend is around pwads made to be compatable with doom2.exe and contain very dificult maps. Only recently have the more active demo-runners moved away from doom(2).exe. Personally, that is a HUGE plus to whether I will even play the map... although MBF isn't much worse. I'm with Grazza, the maps need to be fun to play... this often means they are somewhat short and are fun to play again and again. Ever just start DOOM to see if the sound works or the display is functional and find yourself still just playing around several maps later? that is what I mean. To answer your question: a lot of it is based on the demo-nature of the wad author. AV, HR, Scythe, Kama Sutra, etc... these were made by very skilled players (who just happen to be excellent mappers too) with demo-recording in mind... or more pointedly, they were made for PLAYING DOOM by players. What makes a pwad worthy of demo recording? That really depends upon the player's point of view... some players are apparently into masochism -- Xit Vono and Ryback seem to gravitate toward near-impossible tasks. Ultra-hard or ultra-long maps are not very demo-friendly... if playable at all. Searcher: Your maps do show some fine-tuning, but that's crazy to test them that much! Use3d: So far, we have several exemplary demos for Map01 and Map02. Nilla appears to be a perfect example of a demo-friendly pwad. I/we openly accept requests for recording on this board. (however, I have been too busy to even fulfill what I consider required recordings. :( ) Some of the requests have been too involved IMHO... 40-60 minute maps. would take a lot of dedication to attack a map of the caliber. oh, and we gladly accept demos too. :) 0 Share this post Link to post
Searcher Posted July 9, 2005 Opulent, as much as anything, That much playtesting is just an excuse for playing the map. If I don't have any fun, not likely anyone else will either. 0 Share this post Link to post
Erik Posted July 9, 2005 Searcher said:Opulent, as much as anything, That much playtesting is just an excuse for playing the map. If I don't have any fun, not likely anyone else will either. Glad to hear that I am not the only one enjoying running around in my maps looking for possible gameplay enhancements =) 0 Share this post Link to post
VinceDSS Posted July 10, 2005 you have no idea how many times I played or recorded demos for my AV map, even when it was only 50% done :) 0 Share this post Link to post
Siggi Posted July 11, 2005 Opulent said:AV, HR, Scythe, Kama Sutra, etc... these were made by very skilled players (who just happen to be excellent mappers too) with demo-recording in mind... or more pointedly, they were made for PLAYING DOOM by players. Figures, I was wondering about this. So then its probably a good thing I'm playing through all the classics to get some gameplay tips (and generally improve my dooming). As for wads that require ports. I find the backwards compatability a daunting obstacle, as I would like my maps to be playable on all future releases of that port,,, Obviously the same goes for demos. Currently I'm in favour of PRBoom. Opulent said:Ever just start DOOM to see if the sound works or the display is functional and find yourself still just playing around several maps later? that is what I mean. I know all too well what you mean here :p I kinda accidentally finished Doom E1 with Doom 95 the other day after realising my gamepad works with it (considering the mouse doesn't - and don't ask why I was playing Doom 95 :p) Thanx for all the opinions, I apreciate them. I don't really know how skilled I am as a player, so I'm going to make a demo of me playing through Doom E1 and then hopefully you guys will let me know ;) EDIT:Grazza said:Look at TVR! for example - mostly nice easy maps, but very demo-friendly as they have excellent connectivity and well planned gameplay that means there is hardly any "dead" time in the demos. Is this TVR? 0 Share this post Link to post
Opulent Posted July 12, 2005 Psycho Siggi said:Is this TVR? yes. awesome wad. 0 Share this post Link to post