Mangle Some More

Ian C writes that he has released version 2.0.0 of his WAD Mangle utility. You can get it at the project's files page.

fp! updated editors page.

Why for Lady's sake .net framework?
Its huge, ugly and its a pain in the ass to use with gcc.

Bastet Furry said:

Why for Lady's sake .net framework?
Its huge, ugly and its a pain in the ass to use with gcc.

Because some people unfortunately don't understand that these kinds of frameworks should not be used. Too bad that they are advertised as the programming environment of the future.

But due to bad experience I won't touch any software that requires the use of stuff like that if possible It's bad enough that I can't avoid having the Java runtime environment installed. :(

I think you people are being a bit extreme. Java and .NET were nice steps forward in terms of programmer ease-of-use. We're talking about a free utility that somebody coded just for fun - the functionality already exists in other programs, so the primary reason for it is probably to help the creator. Maybe he wants to learn .NET for work or school?

I've used .NET in a production environment, and I've also used the Win32 API, and let me tell you, .NET wins hands down.

I understand that .NET is a pain in the ass to use anywhere except Windows, but the simple fact is that applications are easier to build, faster to build, and more robust as a result of the .NET framework being used.

DC

But why do i have to load 200 MB from microsoft.com to use such apps?
No, that cant be something that everyone wants.
As said, it slows apps down and is the typical huge overpacked stuff that you can exept from M$.
I stay with SDL and EZ-GUI ;)

Bastet Furry said:

But why do i have to load 200 MB from microsoft.com to use such apps?
No, that cant be something that everyone wants.
As said, it slows apps down and is the typical huge overpacked stuff that you can exept from M$.
I stay with SDL and EZ-GUI ;)

Hence why I refuse to install SP 2. It's so god damn annoying on my computer I'm definitly not loading it onto this one or the laptop.

The .NET framework is closer to 20MB than 200.

And I don't really see the "annoyance" in SP2. Oh what a bitch, they patched a bunch of holes!!!1 It's very easy to make that security center thing get out of your face; not really any different from all the other things that need to be tweaked in a Windows install...

Bastet Furry said:

As said, it slows apps down and is the typical huge overpacked stuff that you can exept from M$.

Installing the .NET framework does not slow existing applications down, because they don't use it. It does, however, allow you to run many applications that you never would have been able to run before.

.NET was the next logical step to eliminating DLL hell (e.g. VBRUN#00.DLL, MSVCRT##.DLL).

.NET doesn't touch anything written in the Win32 API, so the programs you run now, like Doom ports, or about a billion other programs like Powerarchiver or iTunes or whatever you want to name aren't affected by the Framework being installed.

.NET programs are just as fast as traditional Win32 programs, and in a few cases, it's considerably faster. .NET is able to access the Win32 API when absolutely necessary, so you don't lose anything. You gain a powerful means to create programs, with enough documentation to choke a herd of bull elephants.

I don't want to knock any of the other programming sets out there like SDL or what have you, because I've never used them. I'm sure they are extremely functional, and someone who's used to programming with them may be able to do the same things that someone like me could do with .NET. But don't knock .NET just yet. It's still very useful.

DC

Evening all. Thought my ears were burning :-)

The main reason I used the .NET Framework is that I particularly like C# more than anything -- I'm an old C/UNIX programmer and it's the first high-level language I've really liked that's been invented since the early 70's. It suprised even me how good it was, as coming from UNIX I don't really much care for Windows.

Also, for cheapskates like myself, there's a fantastic free IDE for it:

http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/Default.aspx

Have fun.


Ian C

I'd like to see a real C# compiler that can create code that doesn't depend on bloated runtime systems...

I think Mono is probably what you're looking for, then.

DC

Doom-Child said:

I think Mono is probably what you're looking for, then.

DC

Well, MONO works just the same as .NET in that it needs a virtual machine and a runtime as it uses the same IL code. If they'd hurry up plugging the holes in the Framework the 'Windows' version of WAD Mangle compiled with the MS compiler would run quite happily on UNIX under the MONO or DotGNU runtimes.

It's a good bit of fun taking Windows executables (especially console programs) and seeing how well they run on UNIX. Assuming you have the same idea of fun as me :-)


Ian C