The Price of Slavery.

One day I was thinking about the black Americans compared to the Africans.

I reckon the Afro-Ameries have it good, what with the AIDS epidemic, drought, famine, corrupt leaders and the like plaguing Africa. As far as I know from novels set in that period the slaves were traded for weapons and tools. The slaves themselves would have been criminals, tribal-war prisoners, slaves of the tribe or even opposing males and were probably to be damned already.

I'm not sticking up for the slavers. They were barbaric, beating, raping and even dropping weighted down slaves bound together to the bottom of the ocean. Now that is evil.

So after they arrived at America, some slaves became part of famillies and later in the 1800s were more respected than the free blacks who had escaped or bought their freedom. IIRC members of the first version of the KKK, the Kluklos, had black slaves as best friends.

I'm not sure what was achieved in the American Civil War but I guess the reason it was fought was for the abolition of slavery.

Now that Afro-Ameries are free people, they have taken over jobs that once they would never have been allowed to do and are becoming accepted as equals as racism is slowly dying out.

So, was slavery worth all the loss? Must they accept that the white slavers aren't the only ones to blame? Would Africa be a different place now if we had never sought to conquer it? etc, etc.

The West is still doing its best to exploit the poor world, the only difference is that we're no longer taking slaves. Many of these countries are rich with natural resources, but nearly all profit falls in the hands of foreign investors. Whatever is left for the locals to export themselves, we make sure to import only in exchange for their agreement not to infringe on our medicine patents, so we can optimize the yield from our environmental destruction and anti-condom propaganda. We have no interest in pushing the governments of these countries to introduce better rights for workers, as that would make outsourcing less profitable. Human rights are not too important either, because we need some place to send suspected terrorists so we can torture them where no one cares. And naturally, if they don't do as we say, we must kill a few thousand of their civilians and overthrow their government, so they realize the importance of democratic principles.

Sad but true.

Many of your assumptions about slavery are false. You should do some reading on the subject rather than simply making assumptions. Many slaves were kidnapped from villages or lured onto trade ships with material goods or promise of benefits, only to be locked up and shipped away from their homes and families. This included women and children, not just men; and of the men, not only warriors or criminals either.

You are right on one point, though. African Americans do currently have many more opportunities than their bretheren in Africa. This doesn't mean they should be happy about the circumstances under which their ancestors were brought here, though.

Even your last assumption is questionable Quasar. Western influence is likely the cause of problems in Africa to begin with.

I think we should we respectful of any hardship that a group of people have had to endure to better their cirumstances.

However, ignorance is bliss. If they would have remained in their country, they wouldn't miss this new lifestyle, because they never would have had it.

Thirdly this almost seems like a "does the end justify the means" type of question... which changes it's connotation a bit...

while there are benifits some modern africans get from being the decendants of slaves, that dosn't make the suffering of those who lived as slaves any less horrible.

And now the Jews are thanking Hitler for giving them the opportunity to rebuild Israel.

myk said:

And now the Jews are thanking Hitler for giving them the opportunity to rebuild Israel.

I hope you're joking.

myk said:

And now the Jews are thanking Hitler for giving them the opportunity to rebuild Israel.

Thats very tackless

all enslaved people throughout history suffered the same type of treatment, only african slaves have been publicized so much. and they haven't been enslaved the longest either, entire cultures were slaves for hundreds of years long before western civilization even rose to power.

Scabbed Angel said:
I hope you're joking.

Explain how you jumped at that one and not the original one.

St. Doom said:
Thats very tackless

That's right, boy, I ain't wearin' no pimp like apparel.

Xanthier said:
all enslaved people throughout history suffered the same type of treatment, only african slaves have been publicized so much. and they haven't been enslaved the longest either, entire cultures were slaves for hundreds of years long before western civilization even rose to power.

Yeah, how dare those niggers complain! Do they think they're special or something?

Slavery was also used in the same race situations. During the B.C. eras, egyptians used their own people of low class as slaves. The conditions and work they had to endure was something extreme and not a lot of people recognize it when the subject of slavery is brought up.

Even today many economic and social arrangements are almost equivalent to blatant slavery; in most cases direct physical punishment is replaced by pressures that aim at necessities and education possibilities.

The Washington Monument, and the Whitehouse were constructed by black slaves. Everything was made by them, including the bronze statue ontop of the Whitehouse ironically called Freedom.

myk said:

Explain how you jumped at that one and not the original one.

The original one was thanking their ancestors for having endured suffering to make their [the decendents'] lives easier, not the thanking the slave masters. Your metaphor is inconsistent. If you said "The Jewish people are thanking their ancentors percesusion because that lead to them having the opportunity to rebuild Israel." it would have made more sense.

Scabbed Angel said:
The original one was thanking their ancestors for having endured suffering to make their [the decendents'] lives easier, not the thanking the slave masters.

It is? For the most part it's a question; and a rather trivializing one at that, if you ask me.

Your metaphor is inconsistent.

Are you talking about my irony?

If you said "The Jewish people are thanking their ancentors percesusion because that lead to them having the opportunity to rebuild Israel." it would have made more sense.

Ah, wisely said; I gave too much credit to Hitler: All the other Nazis also deserve some.

The point of the question is not the driving force of the agression (slavers, nazi, potatos, etc). The question could be reduced to: "should they be thankful to their ancestors, because since their ancestors endured this hardship, they now live a better life than their ancestors could have*" It's about their current condition's relativity to their ancestors' sacrifices.



*In theory anyway.

Blacks in America still suffer from the effects of slavery. There is the concept of undeserved impoverishment and undeserved enrichment. The excuse that many white Americans make ("It's not my fault that my ancestors were slaveowners!") to void that they do not benefit from slavery is invalid because the wealth (AND PRIVILEGES) gained from slavery are passed on from generation to generation.

If you really want to know about racism today in America, read Joe Feagin's "Racist America."

Alot of people (not just whites) today think that racism is no longer an issue but it really is one of the biggest issues, especially in America. Remember that racism didn't disappear, it is now covert. And just because you don't call blacks the 'n' word or other racist terms doesn't mean that you're not racist. You've gotta change attitudes(prejudice) and action(discrimination) to really change.

btw race is a sociopolitical construction. it's not real.

Xanthier said:

all enslaved people throughout history suffered the same type of treatment, only african slaves have been publicized so much. and they haven't been enslaved the longest either, entire cultures were slaves for hundreds of years long before western civilization even rose to power.

...but here's the thing. Alot of other people have been enslaved, but most of those situations have been where the enslaved were of the same skin color/race and most of it was based on a class system because a class system was set in place.

However, take a careful look at slavery in America. There is no class system set in place. It states in the bill of rights "We the people..." Who is "the people?" They're talking about white men. White women, African slaves, and other were not included in "the people." Also, and really, take no offense to this, the white/european people have throughout history continually been oppressing other people of a different color (ex. U.S. and the African slaves, British and the Indians, the colonization and near destruction of the aboriginal people of Australia, apartheid in South Africa)and have explicitly done so with the mindset of the oppressed as being "inferior." Has there been any other non-white nations that have oppressed other countries? Yes, but not really with the mindset of the oppressed as being inferior. Take Japan for example. The goal of the colonization of China and Korea was to assimilate the Chinese and Koreans into being Japanese. After inserting Japanese culture, language, customs, etc. into every Chinese/Korean institution, and soon China/Korea will eventually become Japanese.

Also, Africans living in Africa who owned slaves were not really "slaves." They were more like servants, who maybe had a debt to pay or so on. Plus, these servants were not treated brutally like African slaves experiences by white slaveowners.

As for myself, I am not stating that they should be "happy" that their ancestors were enslaved, nor does the ends justify the means, as I referenced in my earlier post. Perhaps this point of view is simply opptimism.

Scabbed Angel said:
The point of the question is not the driving force of the agression (slavers, nazi, potatos, etc). The question could be reduced to: "should they be thankful to their ancestors, because since their ancestors endured this hardship, they now live a better life than their ancestors could have*"

Potatoes, slavery and the weather, it's all the same.

myk said:

Explain how you jumped at that one and not the original one.

Because it's perfectly acceptable to make fun of niggers, wops, mics, krauts, wetbacks, honkeys, chinks, nips, gooks, spainards, limeys, towlheads, ruskis, frogs, and pollacks, but if you make fun of the Jews you've just CORSSED THE LINE. Shame on you. How dare you make fun of a race that had a bunch of its people killed over half a century ago.

saying one isn't racially aware in any way is hypocritical.

Danarchy said:

Because it's perfectly acceptable to make fun of niggers, wops, mics, krauts, wetbacks, honkeys, chinks, nips, gooks, spainards, limeys, towlheads, ruskis, frogs, and pollacks, but if you make fun of the Jews you've just CORSSED THE LINE. Shame on you. How dare you make fun of a race that had a bunch of its people killed over half a century ago.

umm actually its usually the other way around wherever I've been. Jews can be made fun of, but any other race? If you have a deathwish, go ahead. and I go to a PUBLIC SCHOOL in PHILADELPHIA a CITY so I know what I'm talking about. I've met people from races all over.

niguel said:

saying one isn't racially aware in any way is hypocritical.

Hypocritical? How? This would depend entirely on where you're from and how you were raised.

Quast said:

Hypocritical? How? This would depend entirely on where you're from and how you were raised.

my point is that everyone is surely aware of the existence of blacks, semites, caucasians etc. nothing to do with where you are raised/born.

niguel said:
my point is that everyone is surely aware of the existence of blacks, semites, caucasians etc.

If anything, it sounded like you were justifying racial jibes and discrimination; because that's the current subject.

Danarchy said:

Needless racial slurs

No one's making fun of any race in this thread.

myk said:

Potatoes, slavery and the weather, it's all the same.

What's your point?

insertwackynamehere said:

umm actually its usually the other way around wherever I've been. Jews can be made fun of, but any other race? If you have a deathwish, go ahead. and I go to a PUBLIC SCHOOL in PHILADELPHIA a CITY so I know what I'm talking about. I've met people from races all over.

Well, when I went to high school, everyone used "jew" as an insult. But 1) no Jews live where I do, and 2) high school isn't the real world. Seriously, just try to make a show about Hitler and see what happens. And any slur against Jews by any non-Jew is instantly picked up on the Jewdar and you'll get like 100 lawsuits against you.

Scabbed Angel said:

No one's making fun of any race in this thread.

You entirely missed my point. And myk's.