"A Modest Video Game Proposal"

Hi. This is sort of a repost from the Skulltag and ZDoom forums, but I'm trying to promote this project--it's not about creating the best wad or map ever, it's about making money for charity, and raising "video game awareness."

I'm planning on starting a team to create a game that will help a lot of money to be donated to a good cause, and I've come to the Doom community to help me. Hell, I plan on asking Randy, whenever he gets a chance, if he would be ok with this team using a modified version of ZDoom that would be eventually sold (the profits going to charity, of course), if everything works out. If you're interested in helping me out, read on.

To give you some back story, Jack Thompson is a lawyer who wants video games banned, entirely. Not just violent ones. He wants SIMS 2 banned. You can read more about his "mission" at http://stopkill.com The sad thing is, this man is actually getting some recognition, having been featured in the news and spearheading the fight against games like Grand Theft Auto.

Plain and simple, this man is a ludicrous censor, and he's actually posing a legitimate threat to the first amendment right of all gamers and game companies. He considers gamers and developers to be morally corrupt, horrid people, so he issued this challenge for developers to create his own sick little game, and offered $10,000 to the charity of Take Two Interactive's choice. I haven't heard of anyone taking him up, so I'm interested in doing it myself.

I'm trying to get together a team, and I want to base this game of his proposal on the Doom engine, and then sell it on the internet under the Gnu Public License. That means I can dip into the Doom communities to help me out with the development of the game. Since this is, if actually created, going to be sold (and all profits are to be donated to Penny Arcade's charity, Child's Play), a whole IWAD needs to be created, as we can't use Doom resources, so I'll certainly need a lot of help.

I've sent these ideas off to Todd H. at id Software regarding the legality of all this and some roadblocks I might face. He responded to my last question, so hopefully he'll look at this too ;) Please respond to this to let me know if anyone is interested, or if I'm just insane for thinking this could actually work. My contact email is shaikoten@hotmail.com, so please send any input you have regarding this there.

i could do it quickly in darkplaces quake from scratch heh

Though I haven't been to e3, so i don't know the level layout

PROJECT OVER

It's ok, all we have to make is the lobby, because everyone knows that's where all the CEOs hang out.

Thanks to the goddes that this dude has no power in Europe.

If you happen to have not enough manpower and the engine is (z)Doom i can help you out.

Quite a funny story to send all possible proceeds to Child's Play, considering Penny-Arcade's and Thompson's current relationship: http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2005-10-14

Dude. He's not going to acknowledge you, he will have some kind of objection and won't donate the money. He himself has said that he wants a professionally produced game like GTA, a Doom wad will be insufficient in his eyes.

I admire your efforts but you might as well quit while you're ahead. You'd be lying to yourself if you'd think he won't have some excuse not to consider your work valid.

Or you could make the game, but not use Thompson's retarded script (use something better), and still donate the money you make to Child's Play.

Just a friendly bit of advice.

I understand that, he'll be difficult about it. But at least he'll recognize it, and make himself look like more of a moron. If I can accomplish that I'll have won half of the battle. But I fully intend on doing this and donating what this team may get to Child's Play. I mean, honestly, plenty of people make wads, but not many of these wads really make an IMPACT, you know? I think it's the right thing to make a wad that has a positive impact like this. Perhaps we could help remove the negative stigma associated with Doom players.

Edit: Basketfurry, yeah, I'm planning on making it zDoom based. I've made a post about it in the zDoom forums already, hopefully Randy gives me his blessing to use the engine for this. (Although legally I think he's obligated to :P)

Thats BasTetFurry, thanks....

As you said its in zDoom, you have your man. Just tell me exactly what to do.

It's a good project. I'd be willing to contribute some sounds at the very least (but no voice acting...I'm already doing voices for another unrelated project). Anything to see the look on Jack Thompson's face.

Bastet Furry said:

As you said its in zDoom, you have your man. Just tell me exactly what to do.

i'm all up for furcon/anthrocon massacres, no one will object to that for sure

Sorry Bastet, about the name thing. I've been extremely frenzied, getting this whole thing together ;) But it looks like all the support the project is getting here, and in the other forums, means there's a very good chance for this to take off. I'll update you guys with a website after I put one together. Thanks, and keep letting me know if you want to help. (Also, any newsies can feel free to post this if they want.)

gargoylol said:

i'm all up for furcon/anthrocon massacres, no one will object to that for sure

And what about Eurofurence?
I want a fight versus the evil Cheetah and his henchmen, doco!!!! <alucard hellsing>*evil grin*</alucard hellsing>

There has been many goverment attempts to stop games. This isn't the only one. Games get more advanced and get more real then ever. But what the goverment doesn't focus on is the majority of dumb ass parents who don't look after their fucking kids. Kids only have access to games like Grand Theft Auto, Kill Zone, ect; is because parents don't look at the "M" rating on the game box.

Let me tell you a true story.

Acouple of years ago when Duke Nukem 64 was launched on the N64, I was chilling out in my local video store which rented Movies, games, the usual porno, ect. A parent walked in the store (A Guy) and his child browsed the N64 section. His kid was only 8 years old and he rented him Duke Nukem 64. 2 days later he returned the game saying he was outraged by the violence in the game and nudity.

So this is what I did. I took the box, shoved it in his face, showed him the "m" rating and contents on the back of the box. I made him feel like the dumbest parent in America cause HE IS FUCKIN BLIND.

So to me the Goverment is a bunch of Dick heads waving in all directions, not knowing where to look or where to stop, not paying attention the real Issue. The Parents. Blame them. If they cannot notice a BIG BLACK M on the box (did you notice the ESRB made their M big black bold font?) they are COMPLETE, if I didn't say COMPLETE RETARDS, then I guess a learning disability in America is a complete truth to both children and dumb fuck parents.

Ok, I'm done with my rant.

Btw you realise he said this game has to be sold...

Dr_Ian said:

Btw you realise he said this game has to be sold...

Yeah, I have every intention to sell it (and donate the proceeds to charity.) I already talked with Todd Hollenshead about this, and it's all legal.

Shaikoten said:

He considers gamers and developers to be morally corrupt, horrid people, so he issued this challenge for developers to create his own sick little game...

His game sounds stupid.

Just a little update. I set up an IRC channel on irc.oftc.net, for anyone interested in joining and talking about developing this. It's #reasonable. I'm looking to set up a Wiki, as it seems the best way to manage what needs to be done. Anyone know anything about creating a software project wiki like that? (Preferably for free, or cheap.)

DarkFoxSoldier20 said:

unnecessary quoting

You just saved me a lot of typing. Thanks!

Killionaire said:

You just saved me a lot of typing. Thanks!

No problem.

WTF. Worst premise for a project I've seen yet.

gargoylol said:

i'm all up for furcon/anthrocon massacres, no one will object to that for sure

Screw Shaikoten's idea, this sounds like it'd be pretty damn fun.

I listened to an interview with Jack Thompson yesterday, and he said he considered all mods to be breaches of copyright?! It would be wise to make sure it doesn't appear like a mod.

Shaikoten said:

Yeah, I have every intention to sell it (and donate the proceeds to charity.) I already talked with Todd Hollenshead about this, and it's all legal.

It isn't, because ZDoom includes code from the Heretic/Hexen source code which is under a not-for-profit license. It isn't just Id's and Randy's code which is in there.

If you use a different, GPLed, port then it would be fine.

fraggle said:

It isn't, because ZDoom includes code from the Heretic/Hexen source code which is under a not-for-profit license. It isn't just Id's and Randy's code which is in there.

If you use a different, GPLed, port then it would be fine.

We actually have been discussing that in the ZDoom forums. We'll find some sort of workaround, might not end up using zdoom. For now, though, the important issue is getting the iwad together--resources need to be up before we can map with any specific port.

I listened to an interview with Jack Thompson yesterday, and he said he considered all mods to be breaches of copyright?! It would be wise to make sure it doesn't appear like a mod.

If the iwad is all original, there is no breach of copyright.

Mods aren't a breach of copyright. He's just nuts, remember?

So this thread is full of silly and nonsensical BS...

I could see anti-depressants along with many other types of mind altering medications being banned before video games ever are. If I'm not mistaken, the number of children/teenagers that have taken others' lives because they were on these drugs is way higher than the handful that have killed because they were supposedly radically desensitized due to videogames in the last fifteen years. Christ, Zoloft alone is probably beating the shit out of video games in murder rates. Practically the only reason these drugs aren't going to be outlawed is because that sweet government that the US has loves all the money it makes off pills that usually do nothing. Of course, I could have gone off about violence in movies, but I thought I'd take a somewhat more unique stance.

So, regarding your cause, Shaikoten. I think creating JT's game through Doom, which for so long was blamed for all that was bad in the world, could not be descibed as anything less than genius. That said, it's just not at all possible even with the most modifided ZDoom-based port. Come on now, to satisfy JT you'll need clear vocal audio dialogue, loads of extra enemies, unDoomish weapons (a lot of which are melee types), vehicles, cinematics, various extra commands (to fit his Postal 2 and GTA-like scenarios), and a fat host of others things-- not to mention significant knowledge of the locations that this game is suppose to take place in.

Let's say you're already prepared for all that. I still think it's impossible to build this game for Doom before the end of 2006. Every IWAD I've seen completed took like what, 2 years at least? And good luck with Doomworld's modding community, who'll take that long and more to finish some PWADs. I don't think this challenge is going to anywhere, period. With the next-gen consoles coming, I doubt many or any companies are willing to start up a new project to create a low-selling budget title at best. Anyway, if this title magically came out, I would pay for it. The theme is pretty dynamic, at least.

How about it, video game industry? I've got the check and you've got the tech. It's all a fantasy, right? No harm can come from such a game, right? Go ahead, video game moguls. Target yourselves as you target others. I dare you.

And I'm pretty sure that's basically the first mission in Postal 2. Our best bet is just to mod that game, only changing the title and main character, then just leave the game the way it is after that.

Well, as much as I love the Doom community, and would like them to complete the entire game, I recognize that it's not going to happen in a timely fashion with JUST the Doom community. Anyways, I thought it might be worth a repost in here to let you guys know what needs work. (Taken from my post in the ZDoom forums)

exp(x) is working with me on setting a wiki up, as that's probably the best tool for organizing. When we get everything straightened out I'll point you guys there.

Some preliminary things that are needed badly:
A pallet. We can't use Doom's pallet, so we need to develop our own to make textures and sprites with. I was thinking something with more tones something along the like of what Duke Nukem is. We're going to be doing mostly settings in stores, mansions, and convention centers, with humans as the enemy. If anyone can work something out for that, it would be a great help.

Texture artists are next on the list (I know the community doesn't have a lot of these :\)--although I might need to take a headcount of the mappers and see what their needs are. We'll use the wiki to set up what kind of textures and flats are needed.

Sprite Artists

Sound Effects (gotten one possible taker)

Music (gotten one possible taker)

Programmers, to make minor code adjustments

And, of course, mappers, which plenty of people have offered help with. I have the ability to do most of this stuff myself (though with what quality, is debatable) but it would be nice to have a hand Wink Let me know what any of you guys are interested in doing.

He has stated in the past that he doesn't consider any kind of mod to be valid and that they are part of the problem, so making a mod won't mean anything to him.

It's not going to be a "mod," it's going to be an entirely new game, using the source code of Doom. Just like Hexen, Heretic, and Strife were new games. This isn't using a doom iwad or any doom resources at all.

Sorry that was supposed to be in reference to the comment about modding postal 2, it seems another post got in before me.