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Hobbs

Codimp you software fails it.

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On ZDoom.org I wrote

Doom Builder looks like the best Doom editor ever made. It has 3D mode support, you can map for just about any port in existance, its a very user friendly environment, hell I could go on all day.

Doom Builder does have a dark side though. For all the wonders that it provides it is very, very buggy. With the introduction of 1.67 users found that the simple task of trying to select a texture or saving a map could cause a crash (among other things). Complaints were made about the multitude of errors that would occur during these most simple of editing tasks, and Codeimp not only claims that they will be fixed in the next version, but has released the source code for us to compile our own version.

It has an even darker side than that though. Today while working on [OMG CIA SECRET] for about the 10th time today Doom Builder crashed. When I tried to open my map again it said it couldn't find it. I looked in the folder that I had the wad stored in and found out that DB wasn't shitting me. It had deleted not only the wad, but every backup file of the wad.

Needless to say Doom Builder is no longer my map editor. Anything that believes that deleting my files is a fine thing to do does not need to be on my computer. But as a warning to all map makers, please, make backups elswhere of your maps, because you never know when a rouge program might strike.


You should do something about your program deleting files. Viruses do that too, and most people consider them malicious.

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Last I checked, now maybe its because I know next to nothing of VB, maybe its because Codeimp is god, but programs in general don't come with the ability to delete files when they crash. The last thing I had that did that which was supposed to be normal was a Packard Bell. It was determined, after time, that a peice of software that was shipped with the computer was responsible for randomly deleting files.

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Essentially, you use the software at your own risk. I am pretty darn sure CodeImp did not purposely code in routines to randomly delete files. Anyone with programming knowledge can examine the source to figure this out.

However, it is not impossible that a bug could cause the program to behave in such a way. It is his fault, yes, but what you are implying, that he is somehow morally or ethically responsible for this accidental deletion, makes no sense.

Any given piece of software will have bugs. Some are more serious than others. If Doom Builder crashed while it was rewriting the contents of the WAD file and updating the backups, it is not hard to think that something like this could happen. Because it happened due to a bug, it is not expected behavior.

If anything, you should learn a lesson from this: don't rely on Doom Builder's backups alone.

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K if I deliberately implied that codeimp did it on purpose, that wasn't quite my intent.

And I have learned now to make outside backups

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It happened to me once. I had a backup. I was going into 3D mode and when the program was building the nodes it crashed. Then my map was gone. I had to reload the Backup and resave it. But I will keep in mind to store my backups else where.

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Damn malicious software!

Windows Explorer also has a funny habit of deleting my files, especially when I press the "Shift"+"Del" keys, and I saw the "dark side" of Word when it went tits-up while I was saving a document to diskette and the file(and the diskette) were deleted!


Sarcasm aside, now I'm sure you see the beauty of taking charge of your own backups: if what yuo're doing is REALLY important, make sure you're backing up to external media(say a CD) just in case your OS/hard disk dies one day also.

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I haven't experienced any deletion of my wads or other files because of Doom Builder doing something... So far only one map editor kept destroying my wads, that was WinDEU... but I managed to autosave the maps into some windows/temp folder and then I just needed to build the nodes with some node builder... the WinDEU node builder was ultra slow anyway... Longest node building time with it was 5 minutes... and the map didn't even have 1000 sectors.. but it was somewhere near that amount...

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Hobbs: It's really you who fail it since you didn't back up your files. Anyone with a brain knows that you can't rely on programs working and that files won't get corrupted at saving. It happens all the time. More often with some programs than others.

So, make sure you backup your stupid maps.

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Yay for Doomworld (again) for their innate ability to see things for what they aren't. Obviously it was stupid of me to not back up my maps in other places, as I have now found out. If that was the point (which it wasn't) of what I wrote the WHY IN THE NAME OF GOD was it posted in the Doom Builder section of this forum. My intent was to warn people that Doom Builder can delete maps, and to notify codeimp that this is a problem. So w00t for being able to veer in the completely wrong direction.

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I'm not sure you should have necessarily had to back everything up; no one's so anal as to not forget backing up some stuff once in a while. The main issue with your post is the silly attitude; being annoyed at a loss is understandable, but like people noted the software already comes with a "no warranties" disclaimer, and even if bugs can be a pain sometimes, you wouldn't be able to do shit without the software (Doom Builder specifically or any other similar app, that can also have bugs or can suddenly malfunction, or fail to meet your needs.) Unfortunately bugs or accidents are inevitable and data loss happens; post about them to let people know and to report a possible bug, and move on, letting go of the editor temporarily or even permanently if you wish, but don't act like a "hey, the customer first!" angry paid-service user here.

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HobbsTiger1 said:

Yay for Doomworld (again) for their innate ability to see things for what they aren't. Obviously it was stupid of me to not back up my maps in other places, as I have now found out. If that was the point (which it wasn't) of what I wrote the WHY IN THE NAME OF GOD was it posted in the Doom Builder section of this forum. My intent was to warn people that Doom Builder can delete maps, and to notify codeimp that this is a problem. So w00t for being able to veer in the completely wrong direction.


Haha judging by the wording of you're post,I seriously doubt this was your original intent.Next time try to make your bug reports sound more like bug reports and not accusations.

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Opened again because that's not a valid reason to close it. No reason for other people not to have their say on this. I'll leave it to CodeImp to decide the fate of this thread.

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1) If you dont backup something that is of great value to you, then losing it is your own stupidity. Why? Because all software has bugs and it could even get lost by hardware failure. It could even be your own mistake by accedentially hitting DELETE or anything.

2) There is no such code in Doom Builder that deletes your files, I never meant to delete your files and if that happend, it is probably because the file never got entirely written (crashed in the process of writing the file?) or something other than DB has erased it for whatever reason (other software or maybe the operating system).

3) There are indeed bugs in Doom Builder, old news, but im only human and no software is bugless. If you dont like it, either fix it yourself or go away, but dont start whining. This is a freeware product, you have no right to whine. No, now go away.

4) Dont compare Doom Builder to a virus or malicious software. You will lose any such argument. If I wanted it to be malicious, I dont think you would have been able to make this post now.

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HobbsTiger1 said:

Thread closed because you people (heh) cant get the point.


Please then, what is the point of your thread? You've made it evident that you were attempting to inform the public of your issue so others can be aware of it; fine, we got that. So what are we missing here?

Also, it's a bit unfair to say that Doomworld as a whole "doesn't get it" just because a few people were PERHAPS a bit harsh with their responses in your opinion. You don't see anyone here saying "boy these zdoom forumgoers sure are stupid for not backing their files up!"

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CodeImp said:

3) There are indeed bugs in Doom Builder, old news, but im only human and no software is bugless. If you dont like it, either fix it yourself or go away, but dont start whining. This is a freeware product, you have no right to whine. No, now go away.

Doesn't this partly make 'debugging' a bit pointless? It's your program, and usually your job to fix it. But yeah, whining is pointless, and gets everybody nowhere.

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It's not like CodeImp doesn't try to fix bugs, he's fixed tons of them in each version of Doom Builder. Some bugs however must receive low priority, or are extremely difficult to repair, and those will either have to wait or, worse, may never be addressed. I'd say all backups getting deleted totally at random once out of every few million or so file saves is going to be hard to fix and low priority due to its sheer rarity. Programmers have to keep some priorities or nothing would ever get done. If I had decided to fix all bugs in SMMU before adding any features to Eternity, it would still be SMMU with some bug fixes.

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i lost the wad and all its backups too
from this bug

you guys just need to have patients
im sure codeimp will release something new soon. he cant spend all his time coding for doom builder
so untill he releases, id use that unofficial doom builder version which fixes alot of these bugs

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If the maker(s) of BuilderX could explain the bugs they have found and tell me what code lines cause the problem for each bug, that would help me a lot solving them for the next version.

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