Preferred Final Doom IWAD (if any)?

(*apologizes ahead of time if this has already been asked a thousandfold times*)

Which Final Doom levelset (between Evilution and Plutonia) do you like more, if you happen to like Final Doom?

I like Evilution more, myself. Easy? Yes. But good gameplay, and a wide variety of locales, many of which not only actually resemble what they're titled, but actually manage to resemble a (fairly) plausible environment (I really like Steel Works, myself). That and Evilution has gnarly music.

Plutonia has the most OMGWTF Map32 ever, though.

And you?

TNT. It's levels suit me more. And music. I just love map 31 music.

Overall I prefer Plutonia, gameplay is just challenging enough and design is rather stylish.

most TNT maps are below average and too complex for my taste... but it still has some great maps.

Plutonia has the best design.

Clearly Plutonia. 32 maps and not a single dud among them. On the other hand TNT just scored 50%.

TNT's levels have real character. Real love was put into each and every linedef. The levels feel like levels and not just sectors stairs monsters and walls.

TNT's maps are easier and more user friendly but don't look as pretty as Plutonia's, but Plutonia's maps are geared more towards the seasoned player, which can turn off players who aren't big fans of hard maps.
Which one do I choose? Good question, probably TNT for the reasons mentioned above.

For single-player, Plutonia because the designs are consistent, solid and simple though neat, while TNT's can be good sometimes but are more uneven, and sometimes they try at cheesy realism. Also due to Plutonia's monster balance that's very even, while TNT's can go overboard on the gun using dudes, not using enough fireball monsters. As for Plutonia's difficulty, that's shouldn't be a problem to anyone unless they haven't figured out how to use the menu yet and someone is twisting their arm to type "-skill 4" on the command line each time they play.

If you have one or two excellent mappers on one side, and a group of varied ones on the other, and they each make a wad, don't be surprised if the two can release the more consistent and effective set of maps.

I'm still not good enough for Plutonia, so I like TNT, although not all the levels are great.

Plutonia of course. Perfectly balanced gameplay, short and quick maps, pure fun.

Even today it's still a great example how to make challenging maps without insane monstercounts.

TBH, I can't even remember when was the last time I played Evilution.

Yeah...Plutonia was the first real "OMFGWTFHARD" wad.

Plutonia. Some people may really like TNTs stuff, but I'm not a huge fan. and Evilution was definetly not their best work.

Plutonia, easy. It just ownes about every other wad ever released. I find TNT to be too inconsistant. Some good maps, some dodgy maps. Plutonia = All good maps! :)

Lutrov71 said:

Plutonia = All good maps! :)

not completely, map22 and map25 are below average...

Belial said:

Plutonia of course. Perfectly balanced gameplay, short and quick maps, pure fun.

What the fuck is "balance" in mapping? Excuse my attitude.

VinceDSS said:

not completely, map22 and map25 are below average...

Heh, I still think they're good maps. I'm just a Plutonia fanatic. :P

Nmn said:

What the fuck is "balance" in mapping? Excuse my attitude.

I think he may mean that it doesn't go from uber-hard to easy or that there is too much use of one type of monster while there is too little of another.
It's important to balance a map.

:/

I tought that was obvious.

TNT is better. Plutonia has a lot of glaring mistakes, like level 2 having rockets and no rocket launcher. It has a lot of fun stages like Baron's Lair and The Sewers, but it has terrible stages like The Twilight and Hunted as well. That line of chaingunners is pure cheese. Go 2 It is awesome, but I like TNT's secret level styles much more.

TNT, hands down, always my favourite, I cant quite say why. Plutonia just never "clicked" with me as much as TNT.

On a seperate note, I'm a Team TNT Fanboy, I love everything they put out, Daedalus being, in my mind, an amazing set. Icarus was quite good as well.

Plutonia. Clear design with new textures, that perfectly blend with the default ones. Playing Plutonia I had the feeling, taht this is how id software should have made Doom2.

But of course TNT uses it's own music. Which is a great advantage, even though I love Doom1 music. So I don't say I like all the music tracks in TNT, but It was nice to hear some new in a serious megawad.

KwadDamyj said:

Plutonia has the most OMGWTF Map32 ever, though.

HR2. I say no more.

I prefer Plutonia since TNT has less room to maneuver and has worse music (I know Plutonia reuses UDoom music but UDoom music > TNT's music (Aubrey Hodges's Doom music wins, though)

Plutonia while less spectacular than Evilution, is far more solid, and has a far more classic style. My only complaint about Plutonia is that it doesn't seem to change the theme, the devil hive maps with the exception of the sky textures don't difer much in relation with the congo's base ones. Evilution doesn't change the theme much in the first twenty maps, but in the last 10, and in the secret levels, you can find clear variations. Evilution has some maps that leave some to be desired, while all the maps from Plutonia are very well done.
Evilution has kick ass new music, while Plutonia only reuse themes from DOOM and DOOM 2 (they said that they made that in purpose, but some new themes would be cool).
While the victory messages in both doesn't have the content of DOOM and DOOM 2, the ones of Plutonia are far more interesting and rich than the ones of Evilution that cause some confusion.
Evilution looks a bit more like a normal wad, while Plutonia is more what you can expect from an iwad. I give Evilution a 9, and Plutonia a 10.

Plutonia for me, closely followed by the TNT maps both are great imo.

TNT has indeed very good maps, steel works(14), metal(8),stronghold(9), administration center(21),central processing (20) and of course mount pain (27) but as said before it's more like a map collection then a true iwad. Plutonia feels like an iwad (made by 2 guys instead of a team) and the challenge is interesting. The twilight (15) is my favorite plutonia map.

There both pretty good. I guess tnt has some awsome music in it.

Coldfusio said:

TNT has indeed very good maps, steel works(14), metal(8),stronghold(9), administration center(21),central processing (20) and of course mount pain (27) but as said before it's more like a map collection then a true iwad.

I'd have to add Crater (12), Nukage Processing (13) and Pharaoh (31) to your list. Even though Pharaoh has bugs.

Overall, "TNT is better than Plutonia but not quite sure why" difference is probably atmosphere vs. design/gameplay. Also consider Unreal vs. Half-life (both first games, not the sequels), Doom II vs. Dark Forces, and Quake vs. Duke Nukem.

The problem with your comparison is that all of those games rock. TNT doesn't.

Also, Mount Pain and Central Processing are IMO two of the worst maps ever to be included in an IWAD.

Belial said:

The problem with your comparison is that all of those games rock. TNT doesn't.

Oh it wasn't meant to compare the overall quality of the games -- merely to draw a distinction between what is being emphasized in some games versus some others.

Neither. I'm not a big fan of TeamTNT's level design.

I see a number of people don't like TNT's level design. Indeed Plutonia's levels are a lot more carefully designed and polished than TNT's (though they are different theme).

But to that end, I must also notice that some maps in the original Doom II are even more amateurish, inconsistent and unpolished than the worst you'll find in TNT (if you discount the bugs in MAP31); in particular I mean MAP08 (tricks and traps), MAP23 (barrels o'fun), and especially MAP30 (icon of sin).