Can someone try my Demon Eclipse Ep 1?

When I released my Demon Eclipse: Episode a few months ago, they were my first finished maps ever. Ands thus I lacked the experience to make good maps. Many said they were decent looking, but lacked the difficulty and was too bright. So I went and massively revamped them with lots more monsters and detail and lighting. Can someone try these updated maps abd give me some feedback on their game play and archetecture/lighting?

here's the link:

http://rapidshare.de/files/8645179/DE-Ep1.zip.html

there are still a few tiny thigns i need to fix, but i'll release that version when I finish my second episode (i'm 2 maps of 6 finished so far).

i will.

but can i ask you a question, i found some pretty sweet textures in heretic and hexen.. how do i get them out and put them into a wad ( i thought they would look awesome with the gothictx wad ) and is it alright if i do such a thing ( put them in there to further add to that style of textuers i use. )

Edit: What port does this run on ?

Downloading as I post. Will be back with feedback when I have completed the entire thing.

Very nice.

Obviously the map01 starting room needs scenery outside :).

In map03 I expected the chaingunners killed at map02 exit to be dead. It was odd that the 3 revs at the exit were assigned to a different switch than the barons.

In map04 I think you really abused switch operated doors and lifts :). I also found teleporters that were one colored flats (white, red and blue). I was unable to find a teleporter leading to the supercharge secret (the room that's near the starting position).

Map05 has too much health IMO. In particular the red skull key supercharge, the secret megasphere in the red baron/demon corridor, and the supercharge on top of the teleport behind the yellow key door felt unnecessary. Some areas seemed underdetailed. 2 HOMs on the exit stairs.

At least one of the supercharges in the pre-boss area of map06 is unnecessary.

Music D_README not found.

basically all he said but the health, in level six i felt it was kinda nessacary playing onUV when you got a good 49 enemies or so in your way, but as i felt there wasnt enough ammo in some places, as i seem to always fall back on the chainsaw, providing the reason for the health.


And the levels past the warp gate into hell itself there more enemies that i encountered in other wads.. especially the warp gate battle,that was just intense. (mostly because of the UV setting) but it was still pretty awesome.

To Belial:

-Yeah, that beginning room int he first map needs a scernery . I was afraid that Doombuilder would make some big error if I made the map too big. o_o Last time I added a sector to that area the game wouldnt run. But i'll fix that tonight.

-Map 03 chaingunners will now teleport in once you walk pass a certain area when you go in that room. So that's fixed.

-As for map 04 and that supercharge, there is definitely a way to get there. When you come across the bridge with 4 mancubus, you will see a room to the left up some platforms. If you can get in there, go into the teleporter and you will end up outside somewhere. You will see two rooms and a platform with some imps a bunch of demons below and some imps on top. There are two rooms to the side of the platform, each with a teleporter. The one of the left takes you to the supercharged room. As for the single color flats, those were just there cuz all the other textures wouldn't allign correectly and moving the map screws it up. I've made them into watery textures for now. I will make new flats to fix them soon.

-Hm, i've had mix feedback about map 05, a lotta people though it was too hard because there weren't enough helth. But I will replace that Supercharge at the Red door with a medkit or something. I have a yellow key in map 05? O_o I dont remember putting a yellow door. As for the exit stairs, do you eman those bigbrick stairs that you raise after killing the cyber demons and activating the swtiches? I'll go check ont those.And yes, some rooms I never bothered to details because I left them as they were when the first version of that wad came out. I'll go fix that.

-Yeah, that supercharge at map06 right before you enter that portal used to be a archvile. But I accidentally made the sector too sort that that poor bastard would get stuck. So I replaced it with a supercharge at that time and moved the archie somewhere else. I forgot to remove the temp supercharge. O_o
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To Renegade:

-Map 05 is very tight on the ammo, but i'm sure there are enough to beat the game since I managed to beat it with some bullets and cells left (about 12 bulelts and 3 cells). I will add another cell to where those cacos and the pain elemental.

-Map06 should have lots of ammo. When you kill the demons and barons in that devil-pentagram room and go up the lift, I'll see that a bunch of Revenants would teleport out when you go get the rockets. One of the teleporters lead to a secret room (if you havent noticed that yet) while the other three teleports you into a bunch of barrels. there should be enough ammo there. But if you mean that the final part of the stage, then yes. I made sure that where wasn't too muchammo there since I didnt intend on the guy to stay there very long and kill demons. Activated the 4 switches after you kill the spider masterminds and jkust launch a single BFG ball into the center of the stage with the falling lava. That shuld beat it. The trick is not to go into the rooms with the spider masterminds or else mosnters will begin to spawn. ^_^;

Map04 supercharge: I've been there, those teleports only take me to the rockets/megaarmor+backpack rooms. Edit: Whoops :).

I guess I'll redo map05 from scratch and tell you about health and ammo then.

Edit: No ammo or health problems. I've found the exact same health items to be unnecessary, plus the supercharge in the invisibility secret too. You can save shells berserk punching the demons and single barons. Left with 14 shells and 40 rockets, more than 200 bullets as well. 18 minutes playtime so no excessively cautious playing.

Oh ya, wouldn't hurt if the ev30 styled lamp maze had pillars without the height difference.

Edit: Skipping all secrets didn't make it much harder either. 15 minutes, similar ammo on exit. BTW: I'm beginning to enjoy this map more and more :).

Ezxariarch said:

To Renegade:

-Map 05 is very tight on the ammo, but i'm sure there are enough to beat the game since I managed to beat it with some bullets and cells left (about 12 bulelts and 3 cells). I will add another cell to where those cacos and the pain elemental.

-Map06 should have lots of ammo. When you kill the demons and barons in that devil-pentagram room and go up the lift, I'll see that a bunch of Revenants would teleport out when you go get the rockets. One of the teleporters lead to a secret room (if you havent noticed that yet) while the other three teleports you into a bunch of barrels. there should be enough ammo there. But if you mean that the final part of the stage, then yes. I made sure that where wasn't too muchammo there since I didnt intend on the guy to stay there very long and kill demons. Activated the 4 switches after you kill the spider masterminds and jkust launch a single BFG ball into the center of the stage with the falling lava. That shuld beat it. The trick is not to go into the rooms with the spider masterminds or else mosnters will begin to spawn. ^_^;

i think its just me, i never got back to aiming in doom II since second episode of final doom ( plutomia ).. there were alot of freaking enemies in the last couple of levels and i had to to circle straff and open fire. and.. the pillar room has a cool touch.. reminds me of Evilution.. which annoyed the **** out of me O.o but meh.

Belial said:

Edit: No ammo or health problems. I've found the exact same health items to be unnecessary, plus the supercharge in the invisibility secret too. You can save shells berserk punching the demons and single barons. Left with 14 shells and 40 rockets, more than 200 bullets as well. 18 minutes playtime so no excessively cautious playing.

Dman, you actually punch people? O_O the berserks were there just for the health since i never use it with the fist. ^_^;;; How long does the berserk last anyway, for zdoom it seems to last forever. O_o

renagade said:

i think its just me, i never got back to aiming in doom II since second episode of final doom ( plutomia ).. there were alot of freaking enemies in the last couple of levels and i had to to circle straff and open fire. and.. the pillar room has a cool touch.. reminds me of Evilution.. which annoyed the **** out of me O.o but meh.

weren't there a lot of freaking enemies in all the levels? =) I never can beat anything past level 10 on that episode without getting my arse kicked atleast 20 times.

Ezxariarch said:

How long does the berserk last anyway, for zdoom it seems to last forever. O_o

Next map or death, as in vanilla Doom.

Ezxariarch said:

weren't there a lot of freaking enemies in all the levels? =) I never can beat anything past level 10 on that episode without getting my arse kicked atleast 20 times.

Yes, but they didnt come in hords like they did in the last few levels. =) and same happened basically to me.. i did seem to cheat in a few rough areas (mostly the Idbehold V cheat. when 10 reverents and 3 archviles are come your way)

EDIT: oh.. and your levels look awesome.. and since you didnt use hexen format.. i feel jealous e.e;

renagade said:

Yes, but they didnt come in hords like they did in the last few levels. =) and same happened basically to me.. i did seem to cheat in a few rough areas (mostly the Idbehold V cheat. when 10 reverents and 3 archviles are come your way)

EDIT: oh.. and your levels look awesome.. and since you didnt use hexen format.. i feel jealous e.e;

Thankies. I don't like hexen format too much with Doombuilder, since the thingtag gets saved and everytime you add an object, the tag goes along with it and tend to mess up the maps.I'm more familiar with normal Doom 2 format with some boom features, but Zdoom-Hexen does have cool things such as slopes that I like a lot.

Yes.. that is true... the first map i got is done ( as far as items/weapons and the sectors.. there are a few things that i did that seem intresting. if you want ill send you the enemy (enemy less for now) via mail if you want to point out some atsophere things i need to do.

Edit: and.. im not too good with that so i dont mess with it ^_^; and this map might not be around too long.. i might restart the level and redo some areas.

Ok done. I hope this is still relevant and not timelining & whatnot. Played through all the levels on ITYTD, and wrote down pros and cons of each level after I played them on a .txt file. Here is what I wrote, sorry if I repeated anything (or if it got fixed)
Test for DE-EP1.WAD
MAP01 - Pros: great indoor detail and monster choices, non-linearity keeps the map fresh, while not having to go all the way back to the start and back with the keys and all. Large buildings and water create an expansive environment, awesome toxic storage room.
Cons: The area where you go outside of the start is a little underdetailed compared to the rest of the map.
MAP02 - Pros: great choice of having indoor areas cramped with close-quarters combat, while the outdoor areas are wide open where you can roam freely. The revenants proved to be a good choice to put outside as they keep the player focused. Good use of custom textures.
Cons: After the first building, the linearity of the level increases as obtaining keys is usually the same step as entering a new area.
MAP03 - Pros: map was enjoyable to play because it wasn't too hard; the number of monsters feels right, the amount of ammo was fine, and the interior design was fantastic.
Cons: Outdoor areas near the end could use more natural detail; the interior lighting used seemed primitive compared to the complexity of the level design.
MAP04 - Pros: again the blend of great interior design with frequent outdoor views and interactions is very good, keys weren't too hard to find, level is consistent in content until the portal scene (which is awesome btw)
Cons: annoying music, too many spheres given the situation at the end, Icon of Sin exit portal looks a little crappy.
MAP05 - Pros: the hell theme is a major plus, the tricks and traps and tough enemy situations were cleverly designed, amounts of ammo required was fine, the area similar to Last Call was pretty cool too.
Cons: Lots of falling off platforms in a lot of areas, significantly more tough than the levels before.
MAP06 - Pros: overall boss layout, simple and small yet intricately designed "wave" rooms.
Cons: powerups were likely to be picked up by accident, boss was easily vulnerable after the switches (maybe you make the last switch lower the final core platform, but raises after a while so you have to act quickly?)

Overall (ITYTD) - This first episode kept one thing that made DooM great - the 'storyline' of levels in which the investigation of technical facilities eventually led to the portal to Hell itself, in which the difficulty level could be ramped up with ease. The designs were consistent and overall very detailed; you have a knack for combining outdoor and indoor areas without losing transition. The levels eventually required some backtracking for keys in stuff, which is a plus; all the weapons and monsters fell into place as there were no shortages or cheap areas that felt impossible. Looking foward to Plains of Hell!

To: Renegade

Sure, send the level to ezxariarch@hotmail.com and i'll be glad to test it. If you are new at mapping, I have a few basic demon maps might might help, if you want them.

To: DeumReaper

Thanks for thed etailed review. And Yes, the 4th level portal was kinda cheap. When I first made that level, I didin't know any advanced doom texture tricks, so i stole an affect from the Gothic DM levels that i how to do, of course, their effect was much cooler than mine. I was really hoping that Zdoom had the effect of Texture warping like quake. So I can take a screenshot of the next level (the entry point of map 5) and make it look like a actual portal. But i didn't find anything that could allow me to do that. Might you have suggestion?
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Has anyone tried the deathmatch sections of each map yet? I was wondering how theywroked. Hey were all made in a hurry, so I'm not sure how well they work. I did test them out with Zdoombot 5.2, but that port is really outdated and didnt have all the new features of Zdoom.

I tested and liked it, reminds me a lot of Evilution in a good way. Also I like the division in episodes, and the battle with the boss was nice (I don't like that uber hard "find the extra hard to reach plataform and fire the rocket with minimal chances of hiting the target and then repeat the move two or more times", it was more like "fight your way to set vulnerable the target and then destroy it", I don't mind if the battle is hard as far as it's not annoying).

@DeumReaper: Since you've played it on ITYTD your remarks about ammo on map03 and map05 are irrelevant. If you insist on playing the lower skill levels at least do it on HNTR.

Ezxariarch said:

Sure, send the level to ezxariarch@hotmail.com and i'll be glad to test it. If you are new at mapping, I have a few basic demon maps might might help, if you want them.

Gah.. i deleted it already, Ill send you the one i am making now ). the one i made seemed that the rooms were too big but i cramped it with lots of diffrent things ( like pillars where i had bridges going over and under and platforms where ammo/health were ) i might recreate it but i will think on it..



oh.. and im not new at mapping.. well not NEW new but i did make a couple maps.. but im a newbie at skulltag editing =P


Edit: those maps might be intresting, i could learn alot from them.. i still havent figured out how to make the monsters enter the teleporters when they are awakened =/

To Renegade:

Then I have a demo map that will help you. I have demo maps on Doors (Basic, swtich-activated, Split door (without scripts), and swtich activated split doors (without scripts). A Teleport demo that shows various monster teleports, a Stairs demo and a lifts demo. All uses normal Doom2 and some boom features.

yes, i got that one, i know how to set it up with and without a switch, but the monsters idle and mull around in the sector instead of coming to the teleport sector.. thats what is giving me problems.

Lead a tunnel to the sector with the monster/s in it, but make very small 4 pixels or so.

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/1261/td6screen8dh.png

At the lower part of the map.

It never fails, but the trick to it is trying to make it look like it isn't there.

Oh.. i sent you a copy of a level im starting Ezxariarch, to see if i need more pratice in detail or im doing okay

renagade said:

Oh.. i sent you a copy of a level im starting Ezxariarch, to see if i need more pratice in detail or im doing okay

I dont have skulltag yet (in the process of DLing it). THe map layout looks decently detailed to me. However, the laybe seems to be a bit "thin" and linnear. If you could connect the tunnel to the left of the map, to the one in the lower middile with a passage, it would be cool. Just place a series of bars or a door that will open after you get a key. I had the same problem with my earlier maps (my maps 1-3 was made a year before the others) and thus look a lot more linear. Sometimes that gets annoying, especially if you are using this map for DM (I assumed that since you are using Skulltag). For single player, it's not that big of a problem unless you have a really narrow hallway or something chucked full of powerful monsters.

i had some plans for that, i was going to but i chucked it because it didnt fit me somehow. I will take that into account when i make future maps, im in the middle of trying to find a theme i can stay on >.o;


EDIT: Its a single player map, or it was going to be.

Ok, i;ve tested it out and I've taken into consideration that it's not finished so some of the doors dont work isn't a problem. There are a few suggestions i can make. First, the begining room, where the light blinks in the center; the ceiling texture of the blinking sectors are different from the surrounding sectors. It looks kinda wierd. Another suggestion is that the hallways has too much fall nukage textures on it and is too narrow. The sides where I can walk on are too narrow and when fighting monsters, this can be annoyin as the player continues to fall into the nukage and getting mutated. I think you should make the sides wider and the hallway wider in general, Or you can make the nuke flow that goes through the middile narrower. The lower textures of the sides are using the falling nuke texture, it looks kinda strange because it looks like i'm walking on a piece of metal that is floating ontop of the liquid. I think you were trying to get the effect of the nukage oozing out from under the metal plating. But i think there is a more realistic way to do this. The two screenshots belowe will explain what i mean.

This is what you hallway looks like (sorta):

http://www.deviantart.com/view/27868296/

As you can see, the plating looks paper thing and cant possibly support a person.

This is what you might want to do:

http://www.deviantart.com/view/27868357/

However, if you did this, the plating looks thick enough to walk on, and that added sector with the rased floor not only gives more detail, but gives an efect like the nukage is actually under som presser and has been forced out beyond the opening rather than just sliding down.

Other than these few things, the map looks pretty solid so far and the use of textures are pretty good. I'm sure you will add more detail once the map has ben completed. I'm looking forward to playing the finished product.

thanks.. but my cuz got ahold of the wad file somehow and deleted it for revenge cause iwouldnt give up the pc >=/ and deleted the contents of the trash can program *sigh* so i dont got it.. my pc is down and im typing from my moms.. sooo i wont be mapping for a couple days... and i got an idea t hat ill impliment what you showed me ( a pesudo-gothicish nighmare wad... or something (btw this is renagade cause i cant get to my renagade account)

I hated these maps. They were some of the most poorly thought out maps I've ever played. There were so many constant design issues I ran into it made me want to scream.

Almost every fight I ran into was either boring, frustrating, or both. There were instant death traps everywhere. Even in the first map, you go near a door and are instantly surrounded by imps that kill you, unless you immediatly run like hell. You put in chaingunner traps that you lose a ton of health on, even if you know they're going to appear.

The ammo count is way too low. I found myself running out constantly, and this is from someone who usually finishes maps with tons leftover. For a map that's as non-linear as these, taking a wrong path may mean you don't have enough ammo to proceed at all. It feels like you took your old maps and just slapped in a ton of new monsters, without even considering the ammo count. Bad, bad design.

The outdoor areas are an exercise in frustration .. you add tons of enemies everywhere, and if you try and kill them all, you run out of ammo. If you don't kill them, you get whacked by stray fireballs and bullets constantly and end up dead at the next lame chaingunner trap.

Map 5 is paticuarly bad, right from the start. Two arch-viles out in the open with no way to avoid them = stupid. All you can do is run like hell and hope you don't get blasted before hiding in the area with the imp cages. The imps take off a good part of your health as well. The part where you have to run across the squares in the correct order or die is just sadistically poor design.

And the maps look like ass. The lighting is still crap, you should NEVER have fullbright sectors unless it's for effect. The day-glow effect of every outdoor area is just terrible.

Map 05 is paticuarly bad .. I ran out of ammo fighting some hell knights, so i just tried to run past them. Went into what I thought was a teleporter .. OOPS! It's an instant death crusher! Great job there!

I can't imagine how anybody could enjoy playing these .. they're just plain badly designed. And no, I'm not trolling .. I honestly think these maps were that bad.

Your lack of skill left me speechless. Also what your trying to say basically means asking for a complete makeover of maps that are finished while the second episode is already being worked on. Kinda pointless.

Next time at least try a lower skill setting before completely dissing a perfectly okay wad based on what you didn't like about the gameplay.

I just fucking hate it when people say 'omg it sucks because it's too hard', especially when it isn't.

udderdude said:

I hated these maps. They were some of the most poorly thought out maps I've ever played. There were so many constant design issues I ran into it made me want to scream.

Almost every fight I ran into was either boring, frustrating, or both. There were instant death traps everywhere. Even in the first map, you go near a door and are instantly surrounded by imps that kill you, unless you immediatly run like hell. You put in chaingunner traps that you lose a ton of health on, even if you know they're going to appear.

The ammo count is way too low. I found myself running out constantly, and this is from someone who usually finishes maps with tons leftover. For a map that's as non-linear as these, taking a wrong path may mean you don't have enough ammo to proceed at all. It feels like you took your old maps and just slapped in a ton of new monsters, without even considering the ammo count. Bad, bad design.

The outdoor areas are an exercise in frustration .. you add tons of enemies everywhere, and if you try and kill them all, you run out of ammo. If you don't kill them, you get whacked by stray fireballs and bullets constantly and end up dead at the next lame chaingunner trap.

Map 5 is paticuarly bad, right from the start. Two arch-viles out in the open with no way to avoid them = stupid. All you can do is run like hell and hope you don't get blasted before hiding in the area with the imp cages. The imps take off a good part of your health as well. The part where you have to run across the squares in the correct order or die is just sadistically poor design.

And the maps look like ass. The lighting is still crap, you should NEVER have fullbright sectors unless it's for effect. The day-glow effect of every outdoor area is just terrible.

Map 05 is paticuarly bad .. I ran out of ammo fighting some hell knights, so i just tried to run past them. Went into what I thought was a teleporter .. OOPS! It's an instant death crusher! Great job there!

I can't imagine how anybody could enjoy playing these .. they're just plain badly designed. And no, I'm not trolling .. I honestly think these maps were that bad.

they wernt as bad as you say, maybe you should, instead of flaming them, maybe give him some ADVICE.. I mean god.. sure you can say they were bad but that was just your opinion.. and if you found it hard tune down the setting and play though =/ oh.. and give advice... thast the better thing to do with each complaint

Darknight002 said:

they wernt as bad as you say, maybe you should, instead of flaming them, maybe give him some ADVICE.. I mean god.. sure you can say they were bad but that was just your opinion.. and if you found it hard tune down the setting and play though =/ oh.. and give advice... thast the better thing to do with each complaint

I think he explained his gripes in pretty good detail. If the author can't take any advice away from that criticism then I'm afraid he has bigger problems. Perhaps he played on a harder difficulty setting? There are many factors involved in any review, but he did explain what exactly bothered him. I guess that's the point when you set out to have people play your maps and critique them. Yeah, it sucks to get a bad review but everybody gets them - they only make you better. Belial of all people should know that.