So I watched the entire Evangelion series...

...and I'm wondering what's so goddamn awesome about it. It must be the whole huge robot thing, cause I don't see much else.

Don't get me wrong-- it's amusing at points, good at keeping interest, and the drama is above-average. The only thing I wished is that the ending had the same qualities. There was a slow degradation that began somewhere in the last 5 episodes or so where all the characters break down.

Clever storytelling? No, there doesn't seem to be anything deliberate about it. It's like the writers did everything they could to introduce the cast, then didn't know what to do with them-- so they instead wrote a story about how they refuse change. Watching people cling to their faults in a too-human way while all this fantastic stuff is going on totally dampens the believability factor (the thing I enjoy most about drama). A couple episodes end up feeling like filler because no character development takes place.

The main character is exremely averse to putting his ultimately self-destructive defenses aside in any urgent situation. His innate response mechanisms are repressed in a very exaggerated way. He does experience some sort of revelation (more like a mental audit) in the finale/movie, which is more than I can say for most of the other characters. Even so, this catharsis ultimately proves not to be enough to effect a personal change. The plot has loose ends galore, most of which are tied up by making something explode.

Other than that, there's just an incompleteness about the whole thing that I can't put my finger on. I've really been trying to like anime, because they (Asians in general) seem to have excellent fundamental sensibilities about drama and I've seen some pretty good examples (Wolf's Rain, Full Metal Alchemist, even live-action stuff like Emperor Wang Guhn). Please tell me this isn't the pinnacle of anime storytelling and there are more series that can be unconventional and satisfying at the same time.

It's hypnotic.

oh, and that "incompleteness" about it is probably because it's incomplete. They ran out of cash right near the end. notice how the last two episodes are basically anamatics? that wasn't for artistic reasons, they just didn't have the money to make two more episodes.

I was under the impression that the cinematic releases complement the existing story arc (which, as I understand, is good for wrapping everything up while still leaving room for another series). And you'd think that they could've planned another series, given the amount of money made on merchandise since then.

On the other hand, I feel that another season would have its own patch of issues, compounded by the fact that there isn't much you can touch upon with the existing story to build a better foundation for it. But hey-- look at American soap operas. There's hope yet.

You think evagelion sucks...YOU SUCK

Seriously if you cant appreciate anime that forces you to think you suck.

And I hope you did watch the end movie.

The last 2 episodes, for whatever reason they decided to present them as such, represent the instrumentality project (which I'm sure I'm misspelling) that is referred to a number of times in the series. Basically all consciousness is merged together into one... the 'soup of life'. I've you've seen End of Evangeleon then there's a fairly brief moment where you can see where all of this is taking place.

Why is it supposed to be so amazing? I'd say half of it is hype. I honestly enjoyed it, but I can see where a lot of other poeple wouldn't. Personal preferences and all. I assume it one of the first series to merge the whole giant robot thing with the "mind rape" (not my term, mind you) humanism they tried to present in Eva (and, please don't get started on Gundam). A number of shows have attempted to copy the formula, so one can only assume that the Japanese like that kind of stuff. And since Eva came to the US before anime really started to take off here, you have to take into account that a lot of the people (not all) who were watching it were of the goth syndrom (meaning trying to be different by being the same as everyone else in the 'different' group). Because I have the bad habit of rambling (constantly), in short I'm saying that a lot of people praise Eva because it's supposed to be awesome, not necessarily because it is.

At any rate, I suppose it is one of the 'classics' (for lack of a better term)... and if (note the 'if') you want to consider yourself a huge fan (I can't see why though... in entails trying to prove something to others) of anime, you watch the 'classics' regardless of their overall quality or entertainment. But whatever.

BlackFish said:

You think evagelion sucks...YOU SUCK

Seriously if you cant appreciate anime that forces you to think you suck.

And I hope you did watch the end movie.

It doesn't really force you to think. It's pretty straight forward touching lightly on some philosophy and psychology

I just watched the entire series too. It kicked ass. Yeah, the last 2 episodes weren't that great, that's why they made End of Evangelion.

EDIT : Does anybody else just want to smack the crap out of Asuka sometimes?

I'm strongly against almost any form of anime in general, especially that of the giant robot genre, but when I saw this a few years back I really enjoyed it. One of the better series if you ask me.

I just saw it for the first time maybe a month ago.

BlackFish said:

You think evagelion sucks...YOU SUCK

Seriously if you cant appreciate anime that forces you to think you suck.

And I hope you did watch the end movie.

lol it's deep cuz it's an anime from japan and it brings up religious and spiritual issues

I caught a single episode one night on Adult Swim and wasn't impressed. I asked myself, "This is what everyone is raving about : whiny protagonists, 'drama' that is highly laughable and a bunch of stuff blowing up without any of it making sense? PASS." I felt the same way with FLCL. Why does everyone claim this to be the best of a genre, or even superior to any genre known to man? As far as I can tell, it's like anything else out there, only it has robots and explosions and it's animated. Which is different than much of the stuff shown over here in the US, but not enough to make it the best thing ever.

I do like some Anime, however, and the genre as a whole isn't bad. I'm just not drooling over it anymore like I used to because it's different. I've seen too many average animated series and boring crap to convince me it is like anything else: 90% of it sucks(give or take personal bias).

EllipsusD said:

The last 2 episodes, for whatever reason they decided to present them as such, represent the instrumentality project...

I got that much. I read some message boards on the series before I saw it (in hindsight, probably not a good idea to go to fan sites for objective reactions), so I knew part of what to expect. Yes, I did see the movies, and I understand that End of Evangelion was a more action-oriented interpretation of the final 2 episodes.

Why is it supposed to be so amazing? I'd say half of it is hype.

Yeah, I'm going with that. Massive robots duking it out over cityscapes get people in a tizzy for some unknown reason. And let's not forget 14-year-old titties. Not that I'm making any accusations, but you know how it is...

Also, I have to wonder why this thread warranted your first post in almost a year.

Ralphis said:

It doesn't really force you to think. It's pretty straight forward touching lightly on some philosophy and psychology

Seriously. OK, so the Japanese are big on symbolism. Whee. So, you're saying if something is cross-shaped, it has something to do with Jesus? That's deep, man.

If anything about anime is hard to follow, it would be the subtitler's choice to transcribe in such an obtuse way as to choose literal meaning over preserving context.

kc32 said:

EDIT : Does anybody else just want to smack the crap out of Asuka sometimes?

Not really, but I did want to tear out Shinji's ballsack for not handling her like a real man should. Who the hell allows pubescents to act like this-- especially ones that ostensibly have some obligation to protect mankind? I have real doubts that the creators attempted to make any of the cast likeable.

Bucket said:
Also, I have to wonder why this thread warranted your first post in almost a year.

Tequila. End of story.

I was a big fan of Evangelion back in 98'-99'. I had a friend who had bootlegged tapes of the series. He also managed to get the two movies, but they weren't subtitled or dubbed, so they were a bit hard to follow even with a translation print-out. That was the only anime I've liked.

I managed to find the movies with subtitles, but nothing dubbed except on Adult Swim.

A couple of the characters are likable. Misato's pretty cool. Rei seems nice, even if she is a little weird (and a clone lol)

I strongly reccomend that you read Freud, some Jung and watch every episode twice.

Also, look fot the Red Book

exp(x) said:

I was a big fan of Evangelion back in 98'-99'. I had a friend who had bootlegged tapes of the series. He also managed to get the two movies, but they weren't subtitled or dubbed, so they were a bit hard to follow even with a translation print-out. That was the only anime I've liked.

There's a nice $60 collection with all eps with both movies with jap and eng dubs with quality subs being sold. The episodes also have bonus footage in some of the eps.

When it comes to blindly watching the end movie, it's a bit hard to do when just watching it and then watching a summary. Even the english dub makes you wonder wtf is going on in the end movie. Despite this, it's best you rent it from blockbuster. I've seen the end movie be rentable there.

I never got the end of the end movie. It's like they left it unfinished again.

Bucket: wlcome to anime. Seriously, there's something I don't like about the entire genre, especialy the art style. I've seen a couple good anime, but that's like 5 or so out of 50+ I've seen. Also, isn't Evangelion that one series that ends with a completely nonsensical movie? My friends (who all watch anime) were talking about something like that.

The way everyone is talking here reminds me of the way people talk about The Matrix and Donnie Darko. They act like those movies are totaly deep and cerebral when in fact they're just a bunch of shallow horsecrap. I've never seen Evangelion though, so I can't say if that's true.

BlackFish said:

There's a nice $60 collection with all eps with both movies with jap and eng dubs with quality subs being sold. The episodes also have bonus footage in some of the eps.

I actually have the entire series on VCD somewhere. I've heard the subtitles for the officially released American DVDs suck. I don't know where my discs are, though; I think I left them at my parents' house when I moved.

Oh, by the way, dubbed movies suck.

I hate the dubbing for this series. Misato's voice can become ear-splittingly annoying at times, same with Asuka's.

I watched the entire series and the movie with subtitles a while back. I can't say that the movie's 'deep' like everyone has always been saying, but it's enjoyable nonetheless.

I wish I could own a rockhopper penguin with a funny backpack.

I have to wonder how someone can really think the JP dubs for this series (or any anime, for that reason) are LESS annoying. Fucking otaku.

My opinion on subbing/dubbing: just give me English dub, for fuck's sake. There are enough problems with subbing and the only thing I want preserved is context-- and I'm not about to go out and learn Japanese just to understand on that level. Instead, I'll take what I can get, as long as I can pretend I'm WATCHING A SHOW instead of READING A BOOK.

In short, subtitles distract too much from what's going on on-screen.

Bucket said:

In short, subtitles distract too much from what's going on on-screen.

I don't notice them anymore. Reading becomes as easy as listening to someone's voice. When I watched Kung Fu Hustle, I forgot the movie was even in another language. For me, dubbed movies distract too much; I want to know what the characters really sound like, and I want to hear the inflections in their voice. Dubbing over it changes that important aspect of acting.

exp(x) said:

I want to know what the characters really sound like, and I want to hear the inflections in their voice. Dubbing over it changes that important aspect of acting.

english has no "real sound" or inflection?

Bucket said:

I have to wonder how someone can really think the JP dubs for this series (or any anime, for that reason) are LESS annoying. Fucking otaku.

Maybe it's because I like watching movies in their native language?

Lizardcommando said:

Maybe it's because I like watching movies in their native language?

Having every character sound like a 4 year old girl sucks. Sorry, but it's my american right to say it sucks and its my american right to be better than them.

Fucking noob

Geez, it's not like I said this was the greatest thing to come out of japan.

It's in my top 5. Behind Nintendo and Playstation.

Bucket said:

I have to wonder how someone can really think the JP dubs for this series (or any anime, for that reason) are LESS annoying. Fucking otaku.

Well I'm pretty far from an Otaku and I think that watching the movies with subtitles is always better (unless i'm really tired and can't be arsed to squint). The problem is that subtitles are usually a direct translation while dubbing is usually done to match up with the character's mouth movements. It's the same thing as changing the words of the Bible or the works of Homer just to get them to rhyme (which they do in their native languages).

There really is a big difference. For instance I watched Ghost in the Shell first subbed then dubbed a day apart. For some reason the dubbed version had a lot of gratuitous swearing and the dialoge just wasn't as good. I also saw Hero with both subtitles and dubbing at the saem time. Reading the subtitles was just more worth it than listening to the dubbing. It still was a very bad movie.

And just for the record, I take the same stance when it comes to European films, though in that case you rarely find any dubbed versions (probably because they're less popular than anime in America).

Quast said:

english has no "real sound" or inflection?

According to people who understand other languages, no. I think it's just a bunch of bullshit.