John Romero's level design

I just realized that most of my favourite doom levels were created by Romero.

Most of Ep1 in Doom was created by him which is of course legendary. Then in Episode 4, my two favourite levels are E4M2 and E4M6 which were both created by him. Episode 2 an 3 was pants IMO...

As for Doom2, I looked at the design credits and his levels are the ones I love to play and look at. MAP11, MAP15, MAP17, MAP20, MAP26, MAP29...

I think he was certainly the best level designer in many ways at id Software, at least in Doom.

Despite what most of the Doom community believes, I think John was the most solid designer of id. He kicked Sandy's ass hard core in map making. Hell, Sandy couldn't even do a good job with Tom’s half baked maps.

While I am a Romero cultist, I do believe that the only reason his maps are so popular is because they were in the shareware episode. Shareware levels are always the most remembered.

e1 is definitely inspired, and stands on its own as the greatest maps from D1. It could be the texture selection as well, but the gameplay was just so dead on. Yeah. Nobody beat Romero.

Technician said:

Despite what most of the Doom community believes, I think John was the most solid designer of id. He kicked Sandy's ass hard core in map making. Hell, Sandy couldn't even do a good job with Tom’s half baked maps.

Which ones were Tom's maps?

Most of Episode 2. However most of them were half completed and finished by Sandy Peterson.

Actually, of those, most of the map structures seem to be basically Hall's, with Petersen retexturing and rearranging stuff a bit.

KennyJC said:
Which ones were Tom's maps?

Scroll down to the DOOM entry here.

Technician said:

Despite what most of the Doom community believes, I think John was the most solid designer of id. He kicked Sandy's ass hard core in map making. Hell, Sandy couldn't even do a good job with Tom’s half baked maps.

He definitely also kicked American McGee's ass, who made maps like The Chasm.

Nautilus said:
He definitely also kicked American McGee's ass, who made maps like The Chasm.

Where'd you hear that? The Chasm (Map24) was made by Petersen, as far as I know.

I thought American's levels were pretty good.

Nautilus said:

He definitely also kicked American McGee's ass, who made maps like The Chasm.

Wrong. McGee made some of the better maps of Doom II, like MAP04, MAP14 and MAP22, although I'd have to say that all of Romero's maps were awesome (save MAP20).

The only thing I dislike I about Romero's design in the classic games is his ideas of what could be a good boss, as far as I know he was the one with the idea of the Icon of Sin and Shub-Niggurat. Other than that his work on these games is great.

The Icon of Sin was a cool idea I thought. It looked the part.

KennyJC said:
The Icon of Sin was a cool idea I thought. It looked the part. [

Yep, and it came out as a sharper climax than DOOM's finale.

The icon of sin was a brilliant last boss. In fact, it was an allegory. Just as the Doomguy killed the mighty two dimensional demon king, in the same way, DooM killed two dimensional video games. With a rocket to the face.

How poetic.

Judging from the credits list, a lot of my favorite maps are from McGee, Petersen and Romero alike. Though it would seem more of my faves are from McGee and Petersen. I also really enjoyed e2 and some parts of e3, so more props to Petersen.

(rock on, map04 & map05)

Job said:
I also really enjoyed e2 and some parts of e3,

What maps? (Since many are by Hall.)

Sandy was alright I suppose. I disliked some of his maps though. Especially map 12 of Doom2... Otherwise I think Romero and American created much better maps.

myk said:

What maps? (Since many are by Hall.)

My e2 faves are:

E2M4 Deimos Lab
E2M5 Command Center
E2M6 Halls of the Damned
E2M7 Spawning Vats

And for e3:

E3M3 Pandemonium
E3M5 Unholy Cathedral
E3M6 Mt. Erebus

As for e4, well, I liked the whole of it except for Perfect Hatred.

As for e4, well, I liked the whole of it except for Perfect Hatred.

You want your head tested.

Job said:
My e2 faves are:

E2M4 Deimos Lab
E2M5 Command Center
E2M6 Halls of the Damned
E2M7 Spawning Vats

And for e3:

E3M3 Pandemonium
E3M5 Unholy Cathedral
E3M6 Mt. Erebus

While all of E2 and E3 were edited by Petersen, E2M4, E2M7 and E3M3 were made by Hall.

KennyJC said:
You want your head tested.

I'll agree if you're saying E4M2 is a nifty map, though perhaps he found it a bit frustrating; it's a tight little bastard for a DOOM map.

I'm very fond of just about every map Romero created. E1 is the only part of the Doom iWADs I still play. In Doom II, map15 and 29 were my favorites. Petersen, on the other hand, I'm not a big fan of, but the maps he finished for Tom Hall were typically quite good.

DomRem said:

Wrong. McGee made some of the better maps of Doom II, like MAP04, MAP14 and MAP22, although I'd have to say that all of Romero's maps were awesome (save MAP20).

Oh that's right, I keep confusing the two for some reason.

American McGee was actually my favorite mapper in Doom 2. Romero's maps in Doom 1 were awesome, but I think American's maps in Doom 2 were the 'cleanest', if you know what I mean. Rarely did I see a texture that he used that didn't seem to fit the theme of the map very well.
And, isn't Sandy female? I would imagine someone with the name Sandy isn't male.

Tango said:

And, isn't Sandy female? I would imagine someone with the name Sandy isn't male.

And you would be wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Petersen

He's very much a man. Bald with a beard, quite hefty and wears sandals with socks!

P.S. Sandys levels for Quake sucked pretty bad in comparison with what his colleagues were doing.

It's a shame Tim Willits only made two maps. E4M5 and E4M9 are among my favourites. I would have certainly liked to see some of the crappier Doom II maps replaced with some of his before the final release.

For the orginal doom, E1 was my fav and a little of E3 (E2 i disliked a lot and I thought E3 could be better), and most of Romero's maps I liked. I grew up more with Doom II and the maps I liked were Romero's and Peterson's maps (MAP11, 18, 28) while I hated the themes in McGee's maps MAP14 and 22 with the texture choices IMO. As for the Icon, I loved the monster wall, the music is the best in DII (MAP28 2nd) but I hated the level layout and how you have to climb up the area; i would've preferred a serious sam open arena...

DooMAD said:
It's a shame Tim Willits only made two maps.

Have you checked out the master levels? some of the best ones are made by willits.

Use3D said:

And you would be wrong.

Ah, alright. I've always thought of Sandy as female, and I was surprised when others were saying 'him'. If I'd known it was short for Sanford, I probably would have caught on, but oh well. Shows you how bleak my knowledge is about this kinda thing. =)

DooMAD said:
It's a shame Tim Willits only made two maps. E4M5 and E4M9 are among my favourites. I would have certainly liked to see some of the crappier Doom II maps replaced with some of his before the final release.

Weird, to me they're relatively bland. Not bad per se but inconsistent and not that much fun to play through. Episode 4 would have been best had Romero, McGee, and Green done it all. The recruited "community" guys did a good job, but their maps are weaker and less solid (John Anderson being the better of the two.)