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Tormentor667

[Released] Sapphire

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I would say it looks better, but aside from the really out of place sky its still brown and bleh.

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Why is the sky out of place? And what is so bad about the "brownness"? It is an natural outside area without vegetation or things like that... did you ever complain about the boring setting of the Sahara or the "brownness" of the Grand Canyon?! Be sure that you will encounter other colors as well, because there are installations, water and other stuffage that makes sense to me.. this is just the entry-area and as I said... the outside area looks natural that way... well, to me it does!

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Obviously you can appreciate the skybox a little more in that new shot, but the rocky stuff (i.e. the actual level) still looks really ugly. Those textures are just... ugh

Edit: Aside from the textures it doesn't look an overly convincing natural scene to me either really. All the rock round the outside is the same height, more height variation would make it look more realistic.

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Tormentor667 said:

Why is the sky out of place? And what is so bad about the "brownness"? It is an natural outside area without vegetation or things like that... did you ever complain about the boring setting of the Sahara or the "brownness" of the Grand Canyon?! Be sure that you will encounter other colors as well, because there are installations, water and other stuffage that makes sense to me.. this is just the entry-area and as I said... the outside area looks natural that way... well, to me it does!


Back to the whole North America thing earlier, having been to the Grand Canyon a few times I would like to remark it is not that brown. It has a lot of interspersed green (trees you know), and theres a big river of OMG blue running through it. And while the dune formation of the sahara is beautiful its not colourful by any means.

And your textures do not help. Not at all. They look horribly jagged, they somehow manage to clash, and the high res-ish texture looks a bit like potato crisps.

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The Flange Peddler said:

Obviously you can appreciate the skybox a little more in that new shot, but the rocky stuff (i.e. the actual level) still looks really ugly. Those textures are just... ugh

Edit: Aside from the textures it doesn't look a very convincing natural scene to me either really. All the rock round the outside is the same height, more height variation would make it look more realistic.


Okay, makes sense, I will work on that!

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DOOM 2 has some nice rock textures that could fit well there. New textures may be a good thing yet not a need for a good looking level.
That and yeah, more floor variations, more angles, rocks made by sprites. And no offence, but seems that people are getting tired of "too much brown" even if it's realistic.

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Those screenshots look pretty cool, IMO. I'm surprised that nobody guessed Sapphire 2 after that first shot.
I also think the brown looks a bit odd. Not bad, just odd. But whatever you do, don't change that skybox. It's awesome.

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Add some hight variaton in the walls and floor, and change the textures on the flats that you lower on the floor. The screens just need more height variation in general.

I'll hold back my comments on the textures until I see them in-game.

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So far I like the textures, but some of you are right, I need more variation, more height differences and things like that so I will work on that and see what I can come up with! Thx for the feedback ;)

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I think part of the reason people are having issues is because these new shots are fullbright. With more light variations textures like these won't look too bad.

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I like the second screenshot better than the first one! :) Particularly I like the nice skybox! :)

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I just played Sapphire and it looked decent, but I guess I agree with many of the people here it was a bit bland. Rarely did an area stand out as unique, the level played well but the GZdoom effects seemed to try and cover up for bland architecture.

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I understand now... that bright brown thing in the top right is part of the skybox... Not to offend you or the author of the skybox, but that looks horrible IMO. I'm guessing that it's supposed to be some sort of asteroid or distant cliffs? The reason it looks so out of place is that you can see alot more details on it than the surrounding level. With it, it's hard to tell what's foreground and what's background.

Of course, this is all judging by just screenshots. I have no idea how it looks in-game.

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Mancubus II said:

I think part of the reason people are having issues is because these new shots are fullbright. With more light variations textures like these won't look too bad.

Yeah, this is a good guess, I think you're right with that! But there is one problem: The outside area should be very bright, as in the skybox itself there is a right sun, the sky itself is very bright... I don't know where to put shadows and in what brightness makes that sense you know :( Any suggestions?

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Use a different sky. Sectors behind the 'walls' to imitate height variance. Recesses into the wall in some places. You're this doom 'guru' figure out some tricks with 2s walls (or hell use zdoom's portals (if you really want.)

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Tormentor667 said:

Yeah, this is a good guess, I think you're right with that! But there is one problem: The outside area should be very bright, as in the skybox itself there is a right sun, the sky itself is very bright... I don't know where to put shadows and in what brightness makes that sense you know :( Any suggestions?

This certainly doesn't mean you can't have varying light areas. It doesn't have to be fullbright just because it's a bright day. If anything this can mean even more drastic light contrasting from shadows and such. I don't exactly know WHERE to put this stuff, but surely you can figure it out. You need to figure out where your light source is located and go from there.

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@Mancu - This is what I thought but it isn't that easy... the more complicated the outside structures will be, the more complicated the shadows will be and so on... more detail causes even more detail... but let's see what I can do!

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I played it. It felt like an ultra-detailed Wolfenstien 3D map. Where's the 45' angles? The height variation? I think there was one fight in the whole map where height variations made a difference in the battle. This map is the pinnacle of bland detail. :(

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Except my review of Sapphire in /newstuff #278 within 24 hours (and bitch about it)!

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udderdude said:

I played it. It felt like an ultra-detailed Wolfenstien 3D map. Where's the 45' angles? The height variation? I think there was one fight in the whole map where height variations made a difference in the battle. This map is the pinnacle of bland detail. :(

My map is bad because it has not enough 45' angles? Every thought about the fact that this was intended? Same goes to the height variations by the way... but thx for the feedback though

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Tormentor667 said:

My map is bad because it has not enough 45' angles? Every thought about the fact that this was intended? Same goes to the height variations by the way... but thx for the feedback though


Yes, in a way you could say that. It's bad because it's not using an any inspirational or good layout. Hallway hell is a newbie way to build a map.
And just like Wolfenstein all the hallways look the same. It doesn't matter if you intended it to be like this either. Doesn't make it any better.

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The rocky texture could do with being blurred a bit (actually a lot), then it would work better, and not tile so obviously

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Tormentor667 said:

Why is the sky out of place? And what is so bad about the "brownness"? It is an natural outside area without vegetation or things like that... did you ever complain about the boring setting of the Sahara or the "brownness" of the Grand Canyon?! Be sure that you will encounter other colors as well, because there are installations, water and other stuffage that makes sense to me.. this is just the entry-area and as I said... the outside area looks natural that way... well, to me it does!


I think he means the Mountain part of the sky, and I have to agree a little bit. It does look a little... Out of place.

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