Nearly there - First Beta

Well it's almost done, just added in monsters and items and stuff, didn't take long over it but I've played through it and found it difficult enough so that I don't breeze through it, but easy enough to be finishable. Just need testers to give their opinion on the balance of monsters and items to see if it's too easy or too hard. Also any bugs you notice let me know.

Things to note:-

Texture alignments still need done.

Lighting adjustments need done. Let me know if it's too bright or too dark.. it seems too bright on gamma 4 on GLBoom for me... should I design it for gamma 4 or is it fine on your setup?

One time I tested it, the Baron (near the end) went through the TP, which I don't want, it hasn't happened since but if you notice it let me know.

The 'Block sound' parameter doesn't actually appear to block sound. The monsters on the otherside of the linedef appear to still 'wake up' and so I've had to make them deaf. Any suggestions?

The start room will be changed. The staircase looks stupid so I will change it.

I haven't added secrets yet, but I will wait till I've tested the gameplay to see what items I want to add.

Check it out.

Nice oldschool layout.

Needs a lot more monsters in the large open areas, and teleporter/wall traps for the hallways that lead to keys/switches and have to be backtracked through.

ATM except for the slightly tight health supply the map is very easy.

The baron teleported.

Only misalignment that hit me was the gargoyle heads at the SSG.

You need 2 block sound lines between you and the monster to actually block sound (IIRC).

Needs a lot more monsters in the large open areas, and teleporter/wall traps for the hallways that lead to keys/switches and have to be backtracked through.

Yes I will add these.

The baron teleported.

Is there any way to solve this besides the 'block monster' parameter? I mean, the teleport is just set to "WR Teleport"... Considering there is a parameter "WR Teleport (also monsters)" I figured he could just walk over the line without teleporting...

Only misalignment that hit me was the gargoyle heads at the SSG.

Yes, that ones was due to the BSP builder I think that Doombuilder is using. Always does that.

That looks like it has some potential!

I like the old school feel. Very nice.

Excellent. Like Belial I noticed the health was a bit on the tight side, though it wouldn't take much at all to fix the problem the way the map currently is; though I'd put more monsters in, especially in the larger, more open areas. The baron teleported almost immediately, which was a bit of a pain in the arse. Oh and the sky in the baron cage HOMs, at least in PrBoom.

Love the oldschool feel, glad to see mappers that still feel the same.

Ok I just tried the map in non-GL mode and found that half the windows in the map have HOM! (I guess the HOM doesn't show up on GLBoom.

So I guess the two sectors behind the window should both have SKY as their ceiling texture? From my last map I thought I remembered I had HOM because I had sky as the ceiling texture and not the other way around.

But it's fixed now anyway.

The only bug that remains is how to prevent the Baron from teleporting... Isn't there a teleport parameter that doesn't teleport monsters?

This was a nice one to play out. (I tested it in ZDoom) My health was pretty low through the whole level, but I made it to the exit in one piece. :P Monster placement was pretty good, I thought. The ledge thing that the player crosses at the start of the level was nice. I wouldn't get rid of it, if I were you, maybe touch it up somehow if you really don't like it, I don't know. One thing should be fixed, though, which I don't think anyone mentioned yet. The bars that are in the hallway just before the exit switch need to have an 'impassible' flag. I could walk right through them into the water, heh. Nice level, though!

KennyJC: Vanilla doesn't contain any sort of teleport excluding monsters.

KennyJC said:

Yes, that ones was due to the BSP builder I think that Doombuilder is using. Always does that.

BSP would not mess around with your offsets. Check your map in DB again.
Also the METAL7 textures used as upper textures in many places, for example on sector 299, need aligning.

Othewise - a very good map.

BSP would not mess around with your offsets.

Well I dunno if it is the BSP builder, but there is a problem at times when textures look perfectly aligned in the builder, but all chopped up and freaky looking in the game.

For example: In previous builds, the hanging bodies near the Baron were the way I wanted in the builder, but in the game looked split in half... The only way I could solve this was to build the WAD in Slade and it showed up fine in the game, so I assumed it was a problem with the BSP thing that Doombuilder uses and I've heard some others on this forum say the same.

However the face textures at SSG (and the bridge) somehow got misaligned and show up as being misaligned in the builder also, despite the fact I never altered them after I had them the way I wanted.

Overall, I find that I get no problems with alignments in Slade, which is why I am leaving the aligning till last.

Also one more question: Is the tight health supply really a problem? I didn't really want anyone zipping through the level with 100% health and I wanted to make it likely that they could die if they are not careful.

Since there are so few monsters I didn't really have any problem with helath.

Same, the health/monster ratio is high enough where you can stay alive and still have alot of health, i finished with 95. I like how the health is because it forces you to be careful, you cant just blaze through. Although some of the sniping chaingunners and revs spoiled it a bit.

Although some of the sniping chaingunners and revs spoiled it a bit.

Why is that? I thought it was pretty cool that you get smacked in the back of the head with a homing rocket whilst trying to kill that macubus on the rock at the water, makes you have to make use of cover.

As for the health, if it is easy-ish I'll add more monsters but not bother adding much more health.

heh, rockets ramming my skull usally dont excite me, mainly when the only cover is a small break in the midtexture. But its all good.

I liked the map, very oldschool, nice gameplay, I like how you placed the chainguners. Here the issues I can point.

-You can't run the wad in vanilla DOOM (there's an unkown thing).
-The first area make you interested in jumping the cliff to the lower levels before the slime pools, once there you find that you're not supposed to be there, forcing you to restart or to cheat (I'd add minor items, like health potions, shells, ammo clips, and teleports to the bridge).
-The texturing needs some little touches (the pedestals with shotgun has an inapropriate floor textures, there's a misaligned door texture, a few minor floor/ceiling textures look a bit out of place).
-The final teleport (the one guarded by the Baron) it's all about luck, you can telefrag a monster, or teleport near the other monsters that were following the player to that point of the hallway, and be killed by them (this is particulary deadly when you consider that the player may be hurted for that instance, nothing that saving before entering the teleport can solve, yet I'd modify a bit this).
-An Archvile somewere should be nice (probably in replace of the caged Baron, or guarding the exit switch). Arachnotrons, Lost Souls, Pain Elementals, don't hurt either.
-Some monsters teleporting could be nice too.
-If you add more monsters, be sure to add a bit more health too.

Vegeta said:

-You can't run the wad in vanilla DOOM (there's an unkown thing).

Prolly cuz the 3deditor cam is still in there. Notice the <!> hanging in mid-air in the imp room when run in skulltag.

Vegeta said:

Arachnotrons, Lost Souls, Pain Elementals, don't hurt either.

They don't?

Th0r said:
Prolly cuz the 3deditor cam is still in there. Notice the hanging in mid-air in the imp room when run in skulltag.

Yeah, that happens a lot in Doom Builder made wads. What I've done is to make a copy of Doom2 slightly edited with DeHackEd, giving the Dead Lost soul thing (otherwise useless and harmless since it goes away) the DB cam ID number (32000), for use with those wads.

myk said:

Yeah, that happens a lot in Doom Builder made wads. What I've done is to make a copy of Doom2 slightly edited with DeHackEd, giving the Dead Lost soul thing (otherwise useless and harmless since it goes away) the DB cam ID number (32000), for use with those wads.

I just go back and delete it im doombuilder before i zip it and upload.