Israel invades Lebanon

Soooo, 8 Canadians killed in air strikes by the Israelis, Canada can now bomb Israel?

Accidents happen. Whoopsie doodle.

fodders said:

Soooo, 8 Canadians killed in air strikes by the Israelis, Canada can now bomb Israel?

"can" in the sense that they're capable of it? heheh

If the Arabs want war they will get it. No one has the right to hurt any of our soldiers. They started it, we end it.
"Israel invades Lebanon"? What about "Hisbellah attacks Israel"? (Or "The Jews", if you want)
I heard we killed Canadians there, you should only blame Hisbellah. Our Air Force send messages to the people there, we told them to go away before we strike.

you fucking idiot

spank said:
you fucking idiot

Relax; he's there at or near where the shit is happening. While that sort of mentality should lead Israel and Lebanon/Palestine to prolonged violence and social deterioration for less good than evil, he's just a guy there mixed up in the bloody mess. It's not hard to imagine the many people expressing similar expeletives on either side now, perhaps awaiting death.

myk said:

Relax; he's there at or near where the shit is happening. While that sort of mentality should lead Israel and Lebanon/Palestine to prolonged violence and social deterioration for less good than evil, he's just a guy there mixed up in the bloody mess. It's not hard to imagine the many people expressing similar expeletives on either side now, perhaps awaiting death.

Actually no... It's sad english is my second language, I would say much more things otherwise.

WHAT IS THE PRICE FOR YOUR CHILD'S LIFE?
In exchange for money, a certain group of people have agreed to let your kids be killed. That group is the United States Congress. And for the last several years, many of them have been accepting money from AIPAC, a supposed lobbying group that stands exposed as a spy operation for a foreign government, in order to promote that foreign government's agenda, which includes war in the Mideast, waged against that foreign government's enemies

toxicfluff said:

The pro-israel stance held by many people is no surprise if you look at the reporting of the situation by mainstream western news sources.

When the IDF takes prisoners, they are "detained" but should palestine do the same the act is branded "kidnapping". There's clearly a conflict here, and these are soldiers being taken hostage - a risk of the job - so I think prisoners of war would be a preferably neutral term. Even those mitigated words don't have the innocuous calm of "detain".

Then there's the "terror-" words. Should be fucking abandoned in my opinion - they've acquired too much of an emotional payload post 9/11 and, to a much smaller extent anywhere other than England, 7/7. The stronger stink of immorality that they have, the appeal to emotion that they make and this appeal's accompanying power to weaken critical thinking make them a too easy tool for delineating opponents and slipping past thoughts and actions that presented in isolation might seem far more controversial.

It also seems that should an atrocity be committed on a corporate, military scale it's an act of war and treated less critically amongst conflict. When committed by a fractured and less militarily potent non-governmental group it's a "terrorist act" regardless of there being a conflict involving both sides, as we're now seeing.

Mai lai, haditha? Oh no, not those. How about the deliberate Israeli targeting of vital infrastructure like water and electricity, the terrifying sonic booms? All of these flagrantly contravene numerous parts of the Geneva Conventions, most conspicuously part 33 of the Fourth Convention. The Fourth Convention that, ironically, was signed following the absolute horror of the holocaust. These are acts of war - no, even less dishonourable than that, acts of defence. IDF indeed.

Anti-Semite is another of these powerful words, suppressing critical thinking and in this particular case being used to halt dissent, to foreclose critical debate. Critical debate which amounts to free speech. Which amounts to, in theory at least, democracy. Yet when this magic wand of denigration is waved, the dialogue falls silent.

It's a horrible situation. Violence doesn't seem to solve anything. The only resolution violence can bring is total domination of the weaker side which is admittedly at least a conclusion, but one that is hard to see as anything positive. But once the first blows are struck are there really any effective alternatives other than to respond in kind?

Well said. I can't imagine why Isarael will want to strike at critical infrastructure like power plants and road networks just to get at Hezbollah. Man, that's like shooting a mosquito with a shotgun...a very big shotgun. And yes, it will still miss. Hezbollah will be here to stay and there's probably nothing Isarel can do about it, even if they bomb Lebanon to the ground and then some. They'll just find more holes to crawl into and then launch some more of those pesky rockets again.

Then there's the baffling unwavering support of the US (and to a certain extent, Britain) for the Isarelis to do pretty much what they want....

insertwackynamehere said:

You also bear resemblance to the disgusting, shit-ridden, mental darkness era of the middle-aged Europe who believed in things such as witchcraft

I can't help but find this amusing, considering such beliefs aren't altogether different from your religion. People in that age looked at the world around them and tried to find explanations for the things they didn't understand. One group attributed unexplainable phenomena to witchcraft, the other to an all powerful deity who lives in the sky. The only difference is that one group abandoned their naive beliefs several hundred years ago. Apparently, the world is still waiting for you to catch up.

DooMAD said:

One group attributed unexplainable phenomena to witchcraft, the other to an all powerful deity who lives in the sky. The only difference is that one group abandoned their naive beliefs several hundred years ago. Apparently, the world is still waiting for you to catch up.

Hey, buddy, can you two STOP taking pot shots at each other and talk about the issue at hand?

DooMAD said:

I can't help but find this amusing, considering such beliefs aren't altogether different from your religion. People in that age looked at the world around them and tried to find explanations for the things they didn't understand. One group attributed unexplainable phenomena to witchcraft, the other to an all powerful deity who lives in the sky. The only difference is that one group abandoned their naive beliefs several hundred years ago. Apparently, the world is still waiting for you to catch up.

Back up, are you implying Christians abandoned thier allegedly "naive" beliefs (aka religious beliefs) and Jews haven't? Last time I checked both religions believed in an "all powerful deity who lives in the sky" and also last time I checked there were a lot of fundamentalist Christians who have done everything except abandon thier beliefs (and as much as those beliefs can sometimes feel annoying to some people, they have the right to believe them).

Your argument doesn't make any sense. You are claiming Christians no longer believe and God and Jews should catch up, and that those who believe in God are somehow weaker than those who deny God. As if belief in God somehow admits defeat or something.

XXoXX said:

Well said. I can't imagine why Isarael will want to strike at critical infrastructure like power plants and road networks just to get at Hezbollah. Man, that's like shooting a mosquito with a shotgun...a very big shotgun. And yes, it will still miss. Hezbollah will be here to stay and there's probably nothing Isarel can do about it, even if they bomb Lebanon to the ground and then some. They'll just find more holes to crawl into and then launch some more of those pesky rockets again.

Then there's the baffling unwavering support of the US (and to a certain extent, Britain) for the Isarelis to do pretty much what they want....

Why do they want to get road networks and power plants? Something called strategy, wartime strategy. Lebanon is Hezbollah's bitch right now so thats why they are attacking Lebanon.

Also everyone who's anti-Israel and says "gee why cant everyone share" read a fucking history book. Israel was divided in two back after wwii. There was Palestinian half and Israeli half. The Israelis were fine with this. But the Israeli's were attacked in multiple wars throughtout the last 60 years of the 20th century by various surrounding Arab areas, and Palestine, and slowly Israel took back the parts of Palestine that attacked them. Now Israel controls what was Palestine too, because Palestine tried to take Israel's half and failed. It's called the fucking spoils of war.

Israel was attacked and managed to hold off pretty much every single surrounding country, even when they were secretly attacked on Holy days, and STILL won. The Palestinians weren't thankful for what they had and the lost everything due to thier greediness.

It's like the fable were the dog with the bone sees his reflection in the water and thinks its another dog. He tries to steal the bone from his reflection and loses his own bone in the process leaving him without any bones. The dog is Palestine.

fodders said:

Soooo, 8 Canadians killed in air strikes by the Israelis, Canada can now bomb Israel?

And plenty of innocents are purposly killed by Palestinian suicide bombers. Go figure.

Two Israeli soldiers were captured. When, say, America goes to war, you liberals say "soldiers arent statistics they're people!" and "one death is too many!" but when that doesnt suit you, you instead say "its just two people why are you freaking out over it?"

I'm tired of how both ends of the so-called political spectrum are so stupid. Conservative or liberal, you end up just being a hypocritical and cynical piece of shit.

insertwackynamehere said:

Israel was attacked and managed to hold off pretty much every single surrounding country, even when they were secretly attacked on Holy days, and STILL won.

Israel is coddled with the finances, arms and technology and sympathy from the western world. Of course they've managed to hold everyone off.

insertwackynamehere said:
you instead say "its just two people why are you freaking out over it?"

Hundreds of dead plus massive economic damage to a debilitated "no man's land" country over two soldiers that were taken is an eye for an eye hundreds of times over, and a guarantee of torturous death for those two soldiers the violence escalated over.

I'm tired of how both ends of the so-called political spectrum are so stupid. Conservative or liberal, you end up just being a hypocritical and cynical piece of shit.

I just wrote your name in this Loser ticket here, which I'm reserving for any future flaming posts you might make on this thread.

Seems Israel was lying when it said the soldiers were captured inside Israel. http://www.voltairenet.org/article142056.html

This story, in French, confirms what the Asia Times reported. Israel sent their soldiers across the border into Aïta Al Chaab. It was there, on the Lebanese side of the border, where Hezbollah took them prisoner.

And oh look, the Palestinians captured an Israeli soldier too didn't they? All we hear is this fact, not this fact "In an overnight raid into the Gaza Strip the IDF have abducted two brothers. The Israelis claim that the brothers are members of Hamas. Hamas denies this and states that the two brithers are merely the sons of a Hamas member.

The two captured men were brothers Osama and Mustafa Abu Muamar, sons of Hamas activist Ali Muamar.
The raid started at 0330 in the village of Umm al-Nasser, near the Rafah refugee camp and only one kilometre from the Israeli border, Palestinian sources say. An eyewitness, Ali Muamar told Reuters news agency he awoke to see Israeli troops scaling down his wall." The day before the soldier was captured. http://www.indymedia.ie/article/76854

Why are you all still arguing with him?

He's not listening, not understanding, has a severe (and imagined) Israel persecution complex, obvious facist mentality, and to top it all off, has almost no idea what he is talking about: Just ignore him.

In the end we're going to cause him an embolism or something.

Australia's evacuating it's citizens from Lebanon... and the government is giving serious thought to charging them for the ride home. :/

Well said, insertwackynamehere.

RazTK said:

Well said, insertwackynamehere.

You along with insert...have both misunderstood what Doomad said, he means the witches abandoned their naive belief, not the Christians ya fool.

If I remember correctly, Israel was on what was Palestinian land. They got booted off the land after WWII after Turkey lost the war. I think it would be fair to say that Israel got the land under conterversial circumstances at best. The Arabs, of course, feel aggrieved at this. And they have long memories.

Heh, if bombing civilian infrastructure and random civilians is Isarel's idea of strategy then I can't see it working (yet). I think the Soviets found out in Afghanistan that brute force won't crush a guerilla group (and they had eight years). Maybe we all can learn a lesson there.

fodders said:

You along with insert...have both misunderstood what Doomad said, he means the witches abandoned their naive belief, not the Christians ya fool.

I meant to what he said about the Palestines ya fool.

insertwackynamehere said:

Two Israeli soldiers were captured. When, say, America goes to war, you liberals say "soldiers arent statistics they're people!" and "one death is too many!" but when that doesnt suit you, you instead say "its just two people why are you freaking out over it?"

If it's contradiction you're seeking, look elsewhere. In the first instance, those people were saying so in opposition to a war. In the second, those people were saying so in opposition to a war.

In both cases, those people are expressing a value they place on life by opposing wars which mean greater losses of life every day of their continuation.

If one death is too many, 300 deaths are no less.

XXoXX said:

If I remember correctly, Israel was on what was Palestinian land. They got booted off the land after WWII after Turkey lost the war. I think it would be fair to say that Israel got the land under conterversial circumstances at best. The Arabs, of course, feel aggrieved at this. And they have long memories.

As they should, they're the same people as us Jews, and that's why it disgusts me with the bloodshed; the unwritten law of the semetic peoples is that we take care of our own, which is what makes the whole war even more unacceptable when looking at either side.

DUBAI, July 24 (Reuters) - The United States will soon provide Israel with some 100 "bunker buster" bombs to kill the leader of Lebanon's Hizbollah guerrilla group and destroy its trenches, Asharq al-Awsat newspaper reported on Monday.

Quoting unidentified informed sources in both Washington and Tel Aviv, the Saudi-owned Arabic daily said the bombs, which can penetrate up to 40 metres (130 feet) under ground, would be shipped to Israel from a U.S. military base in Qatar.
https://www.popsci.com/popsci/technology/generaltechnology/cfb965e919d05010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html
Nuking a bunker, in four steps
1. A B-2 bomber flying at an altitude of 40,000 feet drops a modified B83 nuclear weapon carrying a 1.2-megaton warhead. It travels 2,000 feet per second toward its ground target.

2. Assuming the soil is composed of granite, the nuke will penetrate to a depth of 20 feet within 100 milliseconds. Radar sensors on the warhead detonate the nuke once it has plowed to its target depth, releasing the energy of more than a million tons of TNT.

3. The blast creates a 1,200-foot-wide crater and sends a shock wave traveling 1,116 feet per second through the ground. The wave will destroy everything down to 1,000 feet. Any bunkers deeper than that could survive the blast.

4. The National Academy of Sciences estimates that the explosion will shoot some 300,000 tons of radioactive debris up to 15 miles into the air. The total number of casualties will vary but could exceed one million, depending on weather, wind velocity and the blast’s proximity to towns and cities.

fodders said:

The total number of casualties will vary but could exceed one million, depending on weather, wind velocity and the blast’s proximity to towns and cities.

I'd like to think they wouldn't dare do such a thing, but then the doubts start to creep in. Surely they couldn't be permitted to do it even if they were sub-human bastards who were willing to commit such an atrocity, as it's obvious to anyone with even half a brain that they aren't acting in self defence. There's also the issue of how much the situation could escalate as surrounding nations would almost certainly retaliate en mass.

I thought they already did use them... in Afghanistan.
Or were they a different kind of "Bunker Buster"?

Ooops, Israel has bombed a UN observer post killing 4 UN observers (1 was Chinese)

Yes, the special relationship between the US and Israel is producing results. Isreal have taught the US about detaining prisoners indefinitely, without trial and in return, the US are teaching them the finer points of friendly fire.

Friendly fire my arse, it was deliberate, probably to take out the Chinese observer, or, some reports say the observers had evidence of Israeli war crimes, cluster bombs on civilian areas and using gas and phosphorus bombs.


Looks like Israel is doing the US's job for them

Jerusalem Post - Jerusalem
Author: DOUGLAS DAVIS
Date: Jan 23, 2004
Start Page: 06
Section: News
Text Word Count: 600



Abstract (Document Summary)



LONDON - US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld is considering provoking a military confrontation with Syria by attacking Hizbullah bases near the Syrian border in Lebanon, according to the authoritative London-based Jane's Intelligence Digest.

It noted that the deployment of US special forces in the Bekaa Valley, where most of Syria's occupation forces in Lebanon are based, would be highly inflammatory and would "almost certainly involve a confrontation with Syrian troops."

"Targeting Syria via Lebanon, the only concrete political influence Damascus has to show following decades of radical diplomacy could prove to be a means to that end."

It certainly does seem suspicious. Israel were warned to stop firing on the base, yet didn't. They then went on to shell the rescue team who came in to help survivors. The UN have asked for a joint investigation, but Israel have stated that one is already underway, possibly a subtle way of refusing the UN's request. Yet another coverup in the making.