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Grazza

Miscellaneous demos (part 1) [please post in part 3 instead]

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Belial said:
2 demos for Matt Bollier's raven.wad

Heh, that map has nothing but hitscanners and little health. I was playing it the very same day you recorded the runs.

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Heh, I don't know how interested people are in MMH demos (by the looks of things on C-N, not very), but I did a couple of runs on pl01 and pl02 for fun a while back. They were done with PrBoom so they aren't C-N qualifiable (and I suck at speedrunning) but the routes are solid nonetheless.

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~woorich1/100-pl01.zip
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~woorich1/128-pl02.zip

Ignore the COMPET-N "official" format of the text files, they were written before I realized that PrBoom wasn't legal for COMPET-N and I just don't feel like changing them.

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rrwoods said:

Ignore the COMPET-N "official" format of the text files, they were written before I realized that PrBoom wasn't legal for COMPET-N and I just don't feel like changing them.


demos sound good.

I still feel reasonable (read: view-worthy) prboom demos should be accepted as misc demos at the Compet-N or have their own section.

great to see you still playing!

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Opulent said:
or have their own section.

They do: it's called "DSDA"!

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Heh. ;-)

It's been a while since I shared some speedruns, so here's a speedrun pack for "Door To Hell", an overlooked E1M1-E1M9 mapset from 2001, by a Peruvian author. The quality of most of the demos is high, but the last two (E1M8 and E1M9) were recorded in a hurry and could be improved upon. Hope you like 'em! :-)

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Opulent said:

demos sound good.

I still feel reasonable (read: view-worthy) prboom demos should be accepted as misc demos at the Compet-N or have their own section.

great to see you still playing!

The demos aren't bad but there's obvious places they can be improved, some with luck, most with skill. MMH demos are just so frustrating to make in the first place that once I got a half-decent run out of it I quit. :-P

I suppose the reason prboom demos couldn't be accepted is because of the various things you can see that you shouldn't be able to -- I tried a few max runs of e1m4, and every once in a while I'd miss a monster in the maze and I'd know because the kill count wasn't the right number.

I've been playing on and off for a few years now. I start and stop every once in a while; usually right after a stressful time (final exams, whatever) I'll play for like 3-6 months and then stop again.

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rrwoods said:

I suppose the reason prboom demos couldn't be accepted is because of the various things you can see that you shouldn't be able to -- I tried a few max runs of e1m4, and every once in a while I'd miss a monster in the maze and I'd know because the kill count wasn't the right number.


Yes, and there's other advantages, too - like the ability to run in high resolutions, for example. Playing (and recording) in 1280x1024 is quite different from 320x200, and things like longtics also make it easier to record demos.

Not to mention that PrBoom fixes lots of DOOM bugs, which, while not typically giving you an advantage per se, will still make it difficult to compare demos.

Overall, though, I'll just reiterate my opinion that all the demo sites (particularly C-N, DSDA and Public DANG) should merge into one database-driven site that records more information about demos than just the wad/map and the time (or minimum health), one with lots of nice features, search capabilities, overviews, detailed breakdowns, tables and statistics. ^.^ And, for that matter, one where people can upload demos themselves (so the workload for Opulent gets reduced a bit, too, allowing him to focus on more important things that putting demos online and posting links all the time :)).

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rrwoods said:
I suppose the reason prboom demos couldn't be accepted is because of the various things you can see that you shouldn't be able to -- I tried a few max runs of e1m4, and every once in a while I'd miss a monster in the maze and I'd know because the kill count wasn't the right number.

The basic reason is pretty arbitrary; to use only the DOS engines, and the engines that apply (like you can't use the Final DOOM engine to record something on E1M1). It does unquestionably take care of any doubts regarding any possible differences outside what the DOS engines offer, simplifying things to a level where one doesn't have to ponder whether any slight change might be acceptable or not. It was specifically clarified back in the late 90s when Aurikan used a DOSDoom based engine to record some demos (with possible TAS functionality, as well), but even before that, before the source was available, Doom95 was not allowed either.

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One thing though - if you're in compatibility mode with Doom/2/Final (whatever complevel is required), won't the demos be the same as ones recorded on the other engines, byte for byte, anyway? I mean, is there really any way to tell the difference? I don't mean to advocate cheating here, but it doesn't seem that there's any way to enforce that these things are recorded with the original engines if someone writes a game that spits out demos that are byte-for-byte the same as the originals anyway.

So anyways, to keep this thing on-topic: Any feedback/improvements on those two MMH's?

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rrwoods said:
I don't mean to advocate cheating here, but it doesn't seem that there's any way to enforce that these things are recorded with the original engines if someone writes a game that spits out demos that are byte-for-byte the same as the originals anyway.

This has been discussed here more or less recently; so now people submitting to COMPET-N (or the DSDA) do so more out of love of the game/challenge than person to person competition, for the most part.

Any feedback/improvements on those two MMH's?

Nothing specific, but as I was watching the demos I was thinking the category itself is interesting, as a "player restricting" style (others would be Tyson and pacifist).

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Yes, that's one of the reasons I chose that specific category. I don't like Tyson and Pacifist so much; I like my shotgun and rockets, thank you :-) But that particular restriction is fun for me. I did a bunch of e1 MMH demos... GAWD those are hard with all the hitscans everywhere, but they're quite satisfying nonetheless. I think I'll upload them.

EDIT:
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~woorich1/102-e3m1.zip
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~woorich1/102-r3m1.zip
Heh, I played this one in :56, and then realized, "Hey, this wouldn't be any harder on -respawn"... and then did that in :54.

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~woorich1/108-re01.zip
Weeee... :19! This one was fun to do, a lot more speedrunny that most other MMH's.

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~woorich1/113-r1m1.zip
I noticed that the C-N demo for this looked kinda slow, so I thought I'd improve it. Same route, if I remember correctly.

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~woorich1/200-e1m2.zip
So... many... hitscans....

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~woorich1/196-e1m3.zip
After I did this, I realized that you could prolly get through with 200 by not taking the secret exit, but I was just too tired at that point to care. I may go back and redo this with that route.

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~woorich1/200-e1m5.zip
Gah, this is 9 minutes long... Probably took me like 9 billion years to do too.

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~woorich1/200-e1m6.zip
Kinda boring, really, and probably can be drastically improved.

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Kristian Ronge said:

It's been a while since I shared some speedruns, so here's a speedrun pack for "Door To Hell"

They were fun, especially the ultra-short ones on the early maps. Good job on spotting the (presumably accidental) end level toxic areas.

Initially I got a couple of desyncs, but that was because for some reason I had a newer version of the wad. They all play back fine with the version in the archive that you linked to.

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I'm glad you liked 'em, Graham! Uh, and take a wild guess at just how I "discovered" those 'end level by death' areas? :-)
What do you think about E1M8 pacifist? Is it a challenge worth your time?

Richard: Cool that someone is making a serious go at MMH! I'll definitely get around to checking out your demos.

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When I try to play back that demo, I get a "W_GetNumForName: OTHER not found" error box. Shame, because I'd really like to see an eight-second MMH run, given that it's well under half my time for that level...

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It works OK for me. Checking it with lmpc reveals that it is a standard Doom2.exe-format demo, so there shouldn't be much scope for things to go wrong.

I'd suggest redownloading, and if that doesn't solve the problem (and you've definitely received the file OK), convert the lmp to text with and then back to binary using lmpc.

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Got it. The association I was using to play the demos didn't have quotes around the '%1', so when I put it in a folder called "other demos", the game thought I was trying to play a demo named "other".

Nice freakin' demo! When I played it, I figured with all those hitscans at the beginning it'd be impossible to get by them without them hitting you, but I guess I was wrong. Very well played.

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Why thank you, its comments like that that make the 25 minutes of constant swearing worth while :P. It does take alot of luck to get through their unscathed. It didn't help that on my 5th run through I got 9"03, and thought that I should be able to get 8 seconds easily.....

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You know, MMH doesn't have to be 100% health. It means maximum minumum health. (as I am sure you know)
in other words, if you can do e4m6 with 80 MMH, then you probably would have the record.

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I do realize that, and on the levels where it's impossible to avoid being hit, I take that into account. There's a Nightmare MMH run of Map 02 which is particularly impressive, only getting hit seven times the whole way and still fairly fast.

However, on a level where it's possible to not get hit, I strive for no hits, since 100 MMH in an hour is better than 99 MMH in a second.

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Kristian Ronge said:

It's been a while since I shared some speedruns, so here's a speedrun pack for [url=http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=11130]"Door To Hell"[/url


Good stuff there :). Fun to watch.

While I'm not Grazza, I did do a quick UV-Pacifist run for E1M8 of Door to Hell with a time of 1:15. Found a trick in the beginning which saves several seconds. From there it's not too bad to finish up.

Only slow parts were at the YSK and the red pit. Silly monsters :P.

However, I got hit just after taking the 2nd to last teleporter at the end, which meant I didn't have to wait to fully teleport in before being able to move. Nice little thing which I wasn't expecting.

Probably a low 1:1x or so is possible with no mistakes.

NM-Pacifist...wonder if that's possible on this map.

Will send the run to Ops now.

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I recorded something.

Hacx map05 UV Speed & Reality in 0:29. Nothing special, but it is nearly a minute faster than this map was done in the TAS movie hacx3215.

I used hacx.wad and hacx_f.deh, but this one will play back with either version of the deh. I intend to record more Hacx demos, but I've so little time for recording at the moment that there's no point starting a separate thread for them unless anyone else is interested in doing some.

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Here's a quick and careless demo on a map with the memorable name "Lava Pits That Suck":

The Lord map05 UV Pacifist in 0:28.

You'll no doubt gather from the time that most of said lava pits can be skipped. The trick is S50+thing glide to make a longish jump, and the rest is all fairly straightforward. The end is a bit tight though, as you'll see.

BTW, I recorded Pacifist, Tyson and NM demos on map06 of this wad some time ago.

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Probably the most frustrating demo I have ever recorded:

Henry.wad by Premysl Vincenzo Jedlicka, Map04 UV Pacifist in 0:32.

This ought to be my last demo for several weeks, as I now need to settle down to a month-long work crisis before another trip to the Arctic in late September. This demo was just nagging at me too much to leave it any longer.

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