Crates - Hate them or love them?

Since crates are still appearing in levels, I decided to post a poll so for once and all, the question will be answered for new mappers - crates or no crates?

And yes, you can post your opinions too. But please vote!

Who really cares if a map contains crates, aslong as they are implented in a good way i think its fine

Crates are fine, it is shitty crate mazes that suck.

Crates are probably the last thing I put in my maps, though they do belong in doom I usually only use them to fill up certain empty corners that have no importance in the map anyway or make an combination of smaller and bigger crates to give players acces to secrets or to get over an wall or something.

I never make rooms and then filling it with crates, they have to have some importance to gameplay for me.

I could care less if there's crates in a map or not.That's not what it's about. It's a part of the design like everything else. If they don't have any place in the map, then they shouldn't be there.
I've for instance made projects with both "a lot" of crates and w/o any crates what so ever. There's no definitive truths to art and design.

Crates are cool.

Crates is "Crate" (~great!)
as long as you don't create cratemazes like E2M2 or you implement them in a silly way.

I only dislike them when they are used in a maze and when they're horribly implemented.

Have you people noticed how every base wad over there has the obligatory crate warehouses, when there's no single one in whole Episode 1 of Doom 1, which is human-base in style?

Crates are everywhere in custom wads, even in hell. :S At least they look fine. I especially like if they are placed by the designer, as a homage to original E2M2: Containment Area, as absurdly huge and compact warehouses.

Notice that the above paragraphs are referring only to Doom and Doom 2.

For Heretic and Hexen, well, Heretic's crates look merely like blocks of planks, and should only be used for human/elvish stores and basements. Hexen's ones are jumpable cubes, a bit tedious to navigate, not as "wallish" as Doom's and Heretic's, and are okay with me, because they seem to fit with any of those slow-as-hell monsters of Hexen...

For Strife I don't know nothing, I haven't advanced too far because I wasn't properly inserted into the game, sadly because of the times. :( Should try later, Strife really needs a fan base...

I agree with above

as long as crates are not used to fill empty rooms in lack of ideas for the room, i rather see that the room does not exist instead of having a room full of crates for no obvious reason.
allthough crates are a part of Doom so they should not be excluded all in all, aslong as you don't overdo it.

And as long as you use crates in the right set-up. meaning they dont belong in a map containing only hellspawn such as cacodemons and barons etc. they go better in a "over-run" human base, giving the crates meaning to exist in the first place. former humans + crates makes sence. crates + hellspawn in a hellish map makes no sence whatsoever.

Tormentor667 said:

...as long as you don't create cratemazes like E2M2 ...

Such as in Z1M10? Heh, I couldn't resist.

I can't understand Tormentor667's statement about "no crate mazes wanted". The maze in E2M2 is wider and easier to navigate than Z1M10's, so it's different. I can't understand how Tormentor667 prefers a convoluted and potentially tedious arrangement, than a straight paced one.

Crates are okay, as long as they're not overused. That goes for a lot of design elements (if not all?).

ReX said:

Such as in Z1M10? Heh, I couldn't resist.

Yeah, that's the first thing that came to my mind.

Anyway, I am totally cool with crates. Even crate mazes. Just as long as they aren't too long and are made interesting. Crates anywhere else are okay, but not everywhere else.

I hate crates all together, get rid of them. They create crate mazes by themselves.

Crates belong to doom. :) I love them when they are used with reason and placed well. Big crate mazes suck, although e2m2 is always legendary. I remember back in 1995 or something when I was playing doom the first time after 1993 at a friends place at night when I got stuck in e2m2 and spent like an hour trying to get through it after which I finally found my way out :))

Antidote said:

I hate crates all together, get rid of them. They create crate mazes by themselves.

how would that be possible?

You start with one crate in a room, but it looks lonely. You put another crate, then your collection starts. Then you have so many crates that you barely have enough room for them and you have to make clever little maze-like passages so you can reach them easily. Come on, don't you have a crate-maze in your basement too?

Crates could be even functional for gameplay, if wisely used: they can be used to hid power-ups inside or just to give cover to the player during fights or to help the player to ambush monsters, etc.

need moar crates

Crate mazes are fine as long as we've got IDCLIP!

NixBood said:

need moar crates

...gave me the inspi to try a full 3d crate maze once Eternity makes the linked portals. Thanx NixBood... Map's name: "Crate Oblivion". Heh.

Crates are better than imps. Cratese! Woohoo!

Ahem. :/

I don't really care, actually. I suppose they are good if you need a quick, decent looking obstacle or some sort of quick decor.

ReX said:

Such as in Z1M10? Heh, I couldn't resist.

Hehe, the one in M10 is actually based on the one in M2 so in this case it's just a homage ;)

Boo crates...

They are so cheap...

Tormentor667 said:

Hehe, the one in M10 is actually based on the one in M2 so in this case it's just a homage ;)

My point exactly. ;)

Did somebody take start to crate seriously, or something?

Not to mention you're asking without even specifying what type of levels this question is for (a crate in the pits of hell and a crate in a storage chamber aren't equally fitting), nor in how many levels there should be either no crates at all or one or more crates (and there's a quite difference between a thousand, and two).

Crate mazes can work very well, anyway, if designed correctly; after all, DOOM is a maze-crawl game. I mean, you can use some pretty open spaces, but without mazelike areas you'd be limiting design quite a lot.

I did, and so should you.

myk said:

Crate mazes can work very well, anyway, if designed correctly; after all, DOOM is a maze-crawl game. I mean, you can use some pretty open spaces, but without mazelike areas you'd be limiting design quite a lot.

In return, crates for mazes can be replaced by more varied and abstract choices. See the concrete duct maze in E1M4, the mega computers in E1M2, the weird grid in E2M3, the discharged rooms in E2M6...