confusing enemy step behavior & other rules

Using zdoom I did a test to see which monsters can take which sizes of steps when moving. First I made 16 high steps where each step is a huge slab with plenty of foot room. In that case, every monster can walk up and down 16 height steps. But step width affects their ability to walk up/down too and seems to depend on monster size. I did these tests.

25 steps that are, from top view, each 16 x 512 (with plenty of ceiling height).

When these steps are:

*1,2 or 3 ('pixels' or whatever measurement doombuilder uses) in height:
--all monsters can walk up down 100% free

*4 pixels high:
--all move 100% free except arachnotron is stuck in place with no ability to move at all

*5 pixels high:
--same as above except arachnotron/cyberdemon/mancubus all get stuck in place

*8 pixels high:
--same as 5 pixels except now the demon can move back and forth but only stays on one step

*16 pixels high:
--none can move at all (all stuck in place)

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That is for 16 width stairs though and remember that when each stair sector has a huge stepping surface, all monsters can take 16 high steps. So its kind of a pain making varying floor heights and know which monsters will be able to navigate which areas, unless your steps are always large surfaces. At least doombuilder (I love that program) tells you the height of each enemy, making it easier to control monsters navigation through ceilings of areas.

Stuff like this always makes me mess up design in levels. Also stuff like knowing which monsters will hear your gunfire and 'wake up' (depending on how far away from you they are). In some plutonia levels I think, they actually attach really small 4 pixel tunnels or something into other rooms with monsters, to make sure they wake up for their future warp-in or something. Hell revealed on the other hand often uses the 'join sectors' feature I think and has the warping enemies come in from completely seperated rooms that are 'joined' with the central room or something.

Related ...

Bear these two points in mind ...

1) DoomBuilder shows the Revenant as 56 pixels high, yet one of its frames goes as high as 92 .

2) DoomBuilder shows the Baron\HK as 64 pixels high, yet one of its frames goes as high as 79.

I don't know how many times I've seen these monsters walking around with their heads obscured in the ceiling.....

hawkwind said:
2) DoomBuilder shows the Baron\HK as 64 pixels high, yet one of its frames goes as high as 79.

In Doom the Baron of hell's size inconsistency isn't really evident, because of how the sprites are drawn, although with the Revenant it can be. If other engines draw sprites differently, such as cutting off the portions that are drawn over the ceiling's height, the issue should be more serious.

hawkwind said:

Related ...

Huh, you're right. At least that doesn't seem to affect gameplay though (they can still fully move within that height). Also I just now learned that reverents NEVER shoot rockets as long as they are a few feet away from you. I always assumed there was at least a small random chance they still would at close proximity. Maybe I never realized this since they tend to fight in groups at least one always tends to be far enough away to shoot.

gggmork said:
Also I just now learned that reverents NEVER shoot rockets as long as they are a few feet away from you.

Almost; if they are hurt they may retaliate with a missile*. So sometimes, for example, when you're punching a Revenant it can hurl a missile at you.

* Assuming ZDoom hasn't changed this.

myk said:

Almost

Oops, you're right (same for zdoom). Only as long as you don't attack it then.

gggmork said:
Only as long as you don't attack it then.

It's just a knee jerk reaction, though. Monsters have a special mode where if they've been hurt (with their pain sequence and sound) they immediately make an attack at their aggressor. That is the occasion where the Revenant may shoot a missile even though it's close by. Otherwise, even if you've attacked and angered a Revenant, it will still try to hit you with its fists the rest of the time when it's close by.

myk said:

it will still try to hit you with its fists the rest of the time when it's close by.

I always thought the revenants melee attack was with its feet i.e. kicking ...

Huh? I thought the obvious smacking sound when it hit you was a dead giveaway

..unless your joking

Please. The smacking sound comes from the Revenant rolling up its pants, like you would a towel in a locker room, and lashing them at you.

EANB said:

Huh? I thought the obvious smacking sound when it hit you was a dead giveaway

..unless your joking

I wasn't. But on checking each individual frame in XWE it is in fact a fist ... D'oh!

But on checking each individual frame in XWE it is in fact a fist ...

Uh, isn't the attack sound called DSSKEPCH?  :>    (Apologies if this is a semi-annual argument here, and therefore I'm not helping.)  There's also this caption, which seems pretty definitive to me.

But step width affects their ability to walk up/down too and seems to depend on monster size.

Incidentally, this is easy to demonstrate on E2M2 of the original game.  Start on any difficulty level, raise the stairs to the south area, run up to the bright column and shoot, then go back to the green marble area.  All the imps will follow you down the stairs, and all the Demons/Spectres will get stuck.