Random thoughts on Doom 64.

This is a bit of a rant/odd occuring blather that I had laying around, and since I thought it made sense (and since we seem to be a quite open group here) I thought I'd sare something odd that I noticed in the Doom games; most notably, 1, 2, and Doom 64.

To start, I have been playing Doom since I was 5. 7 warped years later, I got the Collectors edition, and quickly played through Dooms 1 AND 2, along with TNT and Plutonia (However, I really wish I hadn't). Well, sometime around here I got Doom 64.

To me, while Doom 64 was, well, "craptastic" is many ways, I found some real unusual points, and better ideas, in Doom 64; most notably, the monsters. Demons, if you will.

Look at the Doom 2 Arachnotron. Really. Turn on God mode (we all know how to do it, seriously) and get right into it's face. Now, have you ever noticed this:

It looks, kinda...baby-ish.

I noticed it a few months ago. Sure, big momma looks like hell, but her children look, oddly...cute. Blue eyes, no expression...to me they stand out in the Doom crowd because they (at least to me) don't look like something that would kiil you at first.

Then, I remembered the Arachnotron in Doom 64. Now, THOSE f***ers looked evil. 6 legged, teeth, and DUAL plasma guns, along with a real nasty desposition...to me, THEY are the real Arachnotron, not the cutsey-ones.

Then, I got to thinking; what about the others? When I saw Doom 1 and the Cyberdemon (at teh time, I didn't know that there was a height limit) I thought he looked smashed; the manual stated that he was "A missile-launching skyscraper with goat legs"; but in the game, he was about, oh, 2 to 2.5 times taller than the player. But in Doom 64...holy hell, I flipped out when I saw him. Huge, Formidable, and when you play "Cat and Mouse" with just the pistol, you really felt like a goddamned mouse!

Of course, this isn't always the case. The Pinky in Doom 64 looked shoddy (however, I would depict them like that; nothing but a mouth with tiny arms) AND I do understand that everything was anti-analysed, but upon many of the demons, including the Cyberdemon, Arachnotron, and Pain Elemental, I think the changes were great.

However, I will admit some looked rather...stupid. Take the Cacodemons, for instance. I nthe game, to me, they looked like, well, poop ([:p]). I really can't explain it any other way. Arms, fireballs...what in hell were they smoking?

Mancubi...made me think of Gargoyles :/

But then, as I progressed through the levels, I found...the Unmaker.

Okay, seriously. When you got that thing all powered up, tell me you DIDN'T feel like killing everything. I don't know why...but to me, I feel like the Unmaker might be one of the coolest weapons in all of Doom. Three-pattern shot, rapid fire, and can kill a Hellknight in a few hits...pure gravy.

But my thoughts soon came around; where does the Unmaker stand? Why the hell would DEMONS make a weapon that the manual states "Is made of Demon Bone". The heck? Then Why is it in HELL of all things?

Personally, I think that the Unmaker is more of a Deus Ex Machina in Doom 64. Now that I think more of it, while you would rip like hell though near everything with that darn gun, it didn't have some awe-inspiring feeling to it. Sure, you got it all powered up, but you fire and you get a "Petoow!" noise. Comon! I'm tearing the Mother Demon's @$$ off in all regards and I get a noise that sounds like it is from "Star Trek"!?

For me, the Unmaker should have been implemented much more into Doom theme. This is one of the reasons why I want to get into modding so much; I'm going to try and build a Doom mod that has a deeper story and that revolves around the Unmaker; kinda like in Doom 3: RoE, I want the player to start out with the Unamker and progress through the game getting the keys to power it's Unholy abilities. And, so that it makes the origional developers claims, I hope to intergrate that it is powered by Demon Souls (Muhahaha!).

Man...this got off topic.

Ah well. I guess with my screwed up life right now, I needed to blow off a little steam.
--
So, what are your thoughts on Doom 64? Anything you'd change or implement into other Doom games?

And, for the latter, should I stop going so badly off topic :D ?

I played the Absolution TC (using the freedoom iwad BTW). I think one of the strongest point about the game is the general atmosphere it creates especially in the gothic themed levels.

I can't say I agree that Doom 64 was "craptastic" as I find it is easily the best console version of Doom and its maps are some of the most well-designed that I have known. However, I do think that, as you mentioned, the changes in enemy sprites and in general atmosphere were among the game's best qualities. Doom 64 had a much darker feel to it than the originals, and its atmosphere really seemed more hellish and demonic.

I like Doom because of its Technohorror atmosphere, not because of hell. I really didn't care for Doom 64, it just did not feel like Doom to me. Doom has it's own style atmosphere that I do not believe can be copied, there's just something about it.

You don't think a arachnotron would kill you at first? They're brains on mechanical spider legs with a mounted plasma rifle. I don't know if I'd want to chill with one

Obviously, you don't have a clue then about what the Cacodemon was based on:



Also, John Carmack (one of the founders of id, the company who made Doom) even stated that storylines in a game were like storylines in a porn movie. I don't think Doom was ever intended to be some sort of over-arching storyline that continues across many games in the series, like Half-Life.

This isen't to say that it can't be like that. But personally, when I play a level, I don't read the story section. Besides, in most levels, the player just randomly gets shoved into an unrealistic-looking place, with unrealistic creatures inhabiting the place, using unrealistic weapons and methods of attacking, so why should the player have any realistic ways of getting there other than just, materializing :P

Oh, and the Arachnotron just has large eyes, akin to what MOST people seem to think are green aliens (you know the little green dudes). It just has large eyes like those, particularly when the Arachnotron is probably the monster that is best suited to be an alien. Nothing baby-ish there.

Nonetheless, good luck with your project.

I always hated the unmaker sound effect too. Could of been better.

But Doom 64 imo is quite impressive for the sprites and it's atmosphere. Some of the sprite remakes are awesome, tho I do admit nothing beats origional caco. But w/e, the game is good in its own right.

Ralphis said:

You don't think a arachnotron would kill you at first? They're brains on mechanical spider legs with a mounted plasma rifle. I don't know if I'd want to chill with one

Yeah, but they look so cute :p !

Inferno said:

I always hated the unmaker sound effect too. Could of been better.

That is one of the reasons why I wanted to get into modding. For mine, I wanted to have like a "Roar"; kinda like a combination of every demon noise, then really distort it through a sound distorting program like Audacity.

But then, my problem comes to it's ammo. I wanted to try for a Doom: RoE style, sucking souls out of demons, but I think I will have to pull that to actual ammunition; thank god for DeHackEd.

I'm going to try some preliminary drawings, and I hope to post them soon; I also hope to incorporate the RoE style of corruption- remember what the dude's hands looked like when he held the HellStone? I want to incrporate that as well; so I guess I have my work cut out for me :p

Goddamnit! I got off topic again!

BoldEnglishman posted:
helluva beast

Damnit, that Astral should be drawn into Doom and put at the end of a 7-level Doom 2 wad.

I'm a pretty big fan of Doom 64. It's only those few weaker looking sprites that I dislike about it, really. I don't remember what the Unmaker sounds like, but I imagine what the developers wanted was something that sounds uncommon to anything a human weapon would sound like.

desposition? anti-analysed?

Doom64 was like the only doom game in the series that wasnt on a tight schedule. They actually HAD THE TIME to make good maps and sprites and shit. It's easily noticable in Doom and Doom 2, in some cases even Doom 3, that the developers were like "Dude we need 10 more maps by next week!" Doom 64 seems like the most 'finished' game of the Doom series.

But admittedly, the Unmaker was just a plasma gun. I didnt even use it when I had shotgun shells.

Doom 64 was probably one of the best in the doom series. Also the only doom game that actually scared me. The dark and creep atmosphere is what made the game so good.

As for the laser gun. I never upgraded it all the way. I couldnt find one of the secret levels to get the final upgrade. Though I also never really used it at all.

Speaking of Doom64, does anyone know if the TC works with Vista? I will probably be getting Vista soon.

JohnnyRancid said:

But admittedly, the Unmaker was just a plasma gun.

Yeah it was. I prefered using the plamsa rifle. However, per shot the unmaker was slightly more powerful if I rmember correctly.

In the original N64 game the Unmaker/laser does about twice the damage per cell as the plasma rifle; But without any power-ups it has only half the plasma rifle's rate of fire.
The "Artifact" power-ups don't do much for the weapon's power per cell, but they can greatly increase the firing rate...
Plasma rifle: About 7.5 cells per second. Unmaker, no Artifact: About 3.75 cells/second. One Artifact: ~6/sec.; Two Artifacts: 15/sec.; All three: 24/sec. At twice the PR's damage per cell, it gets to be a formidable weapon.
The number and pattern of beams released are also changed depending on how weapon is modified and used.
Overall I like the 2-Artifact Unmaker best. (Click for Doom 64 passwords to provide this version of the weapon on any map.) It's fast and powerful enough, and fewer beams go flying off into space when fighting at longer ranges.

Coopersville said:
[...] I don't remember what the Unmaker sounds like, but I imagine what the developers wanted was something that sounds uncommon to anything a human weapon would sound like.

Click for a 5-second mp3 of the Unmaker firing sound (repeating fire, at its base firing rate).

Like JohnnyRancid had already stated Midway did not have high expectancy or rushed dead lines to pressure the team behind Doom 64 and it shows! The monster sprites and weapons for the most part were all rendered with actual 3D models, positioned, captured, and brushed up to give them such depth that gave then that neo-3D appearance. The texture-filtration was used to keep the sprites sharp instead of pixilation like the original.

Of course the music and colored lighting played huge roles in ambiance that need no description and higher-res textures made that rust look all so more convincing. Sadly Doom 64 lost that charming cyberpunk feel only the time of the original Doom could have been contributed was lost in this game. The over all feel of Doom 64 was really more of Quake then the original Doom.

I often wonder what Doom 64 would have been like without cart space playing a role in the matter of Doom 64's production. I would have like to seen their attempts at a Revenant or Mastermind or maybe even a few new demons.

To this day I always wonder what happened to the models used to make the Demon and weapon sprites. I've seen them many a time used for Doom 64 promotional material like ads from Nintendo power and the. Maybe one day the designer that may still have these maybe found.

And what of the lightning gun?

Ledmeister said:

Click for a 5-second mp3 of the Unmaker firing sound (repeating fire, at its base firing rate).

With the bassiness of my gaming chair/PC speakers, the Unmaker sounds awesome.

Technician said:

The over all feel of Doom 64 was really more of Quake then the original Doom.

Yeah, but I like Quake 1, so I can't argue. I think Doom was really intended to be similar to quake from the start. If you think about it, Wolfenstein 3d was their previous game, which had some horrory elements to it, but was still washed out by all the flashy colors and cartoony characters.

Doom was intended to be a horrory bloody game. The radio commercial on Romero's website makes it pretty apparent. And it was certianly a step down from the colorful mess that is Wolfenstein 3d, with all of its dull brownish coloring and damaged and aging environments. Doom was probably supposed to look like Quake 1 does now, but the gaming world wasn't ready for the dark gothic style of gaming that is so affluent in games these days.

This is also probably why KDiZD supports this hellish slower paced horror theme, instead of the fast paced "shoot everything you see room by room metal mania and beat the map in 40 seconds" that doom really became. Doom 64 seems like the successor of what doom was originally supposed to be, and the N64 age was certainly the right time for it to come out.

Dont get me wrong, I love Doom 1 and 2 as it is because it has a hundred times more replay value than a horror game, but I can continually argue the fact that it was supposed to be a horror game in the development.

Technician said:

And what of the lightning gun?

Lightning Gun? What do you mean?

The Plasma Rifle seemed more like it (considering the balls of energy fired); is that what you are talking about?

Technician said:

The over all feel of Doom 64 was really more of Quake then the original Doom.

Thats because they DID try to make Doom64 feel like quake.

Doom64 feels like quake? No! Sometime in the past I've played QUAKE.WAD, that was like quake!

Doom64 is one doom game that I've always liked. IMO it feels like a remake of doom2 (most of the game elements return; all weapons are brought back, etc.--then overhauled to create a darker and scarier feeling). I was around 8 or 9 when it came out for the N64, and it was scary as shit to play. The Unmaker was indeed a badass weapon, but its pew pew hellbeams could have been done better. Also Hectic is one bitchin level.

Doom 64, like Eternal Doom, inspires me, I dont really know the best way to explain it, but most mappers, as well as myself, when we make switch puzzles that activate doors and elevators and junk, its pretty easy to conclude what can and has to be done in order to progress through the level.

What is interesting to me the most about Eternal Doom and Doom 64, which can be annoying in some cases, is that you will often find a switch that will take more than a couple of seconds to realize what it just operated, and then find where you need to go to make a use of the switches operation. A good example was in Eternal Doom MAP02, where you had to find that hidden switch that was a brick marked with a carved X, as well as in Doom 64, the switch that opened up the door to the blue key that you had to find. Both these examples of switch puzzles gave an early impression, that this game is not going to be easy, and I think early impressions are the most important part of any game or wad.

In most maps, which essentially is not a bad thing, is that every room has a lot of light, and every switch is very reliable at directing you where to go. Which gives faster and more explosive gameplay, which holds very true to Doom 1 and 2's original atmosphere. I like it.

However, I just think its very impressive when a mapset has to be searched out to find switches, and find out what they do. It turns the game more into an adventure. I think that was what Hexen tried to pull off, but I personally think they failed pretty badly. The atmosphere was there, but the puzzles were a bitch and not fun to solve. But Doom64 was very good at giving you the feeling that this game is not going to be easy, and I give it a lot of repsect for that.

I find Doom 64 to be entertaining. It wasn't the first console Doom to try the ambient thing; The PSX version of Doom had that going for itself back in 1995, complete with an ambient soundtrack and added sector-based lighting. Still, it took Doom 64 to really perfect it, and I appreciate it because of that.

To everybody saying it "isn't Doom", I honestly have no idea what you're talking about; You have your standard weapon layout (plus one "Unmaker"), your standard selection of enemies, running and gunning cleverly mixed with switch-pulling and puzzle-solving, and nice uses of the techno-base and Hellish themes. To those saying it plays more like Quake than it does Doom, I can only think to say that to me, the original Quake played like a faster, more complex Doom to me in the first place; iD's games build upon previous models, with the progression of Wolfenstein 3D to Doom, and Doom to Quake.

You know what? Fuck this shit; Let's all just delete our Doom folders and play Duke Nukem 3D. That's obviously more of a man's game.

Agreed, Doom64 isn't aimed to be like Quake, instead it aimed to include suggestive themes that reminded people of Quake. It was more gearing to gain the Quake fan's attention to look into playing a Doom game since Quake, at its time, being the new hype and all.

Cloud109 said:

You know what? Fuck this shit; Let's all just delete our Doom folders and play Duke Nukem 3D. That's obviously more of a man's game.

Or let's just all grow up! That sounds like a neat plan. Let's learn, how to respect other's opinions.

I myself liked Doom 64 very much, tho I never could get used to new enemy sprites. There's nothing wrong with them, really. But it felt like a different game to me.

I'm one of those people, who started their Doom adventure with the shareware version of this game. So the first three words that I could pronounce, were: "Mama" "Papa" and "IDDQD"...

Just kidding, I wasn't that much of a baby when I first played it, but it was shocking and what-not, to a kiddo who couldn't reach the floor with his feet, when sitting on his father's chair.
PC Doom (and Doom 1, not 2) always is teh Winner for me.

I think Doom 64 is nothing like quake at all. By the way Kaiser how is that Doom 64 project of yours going?

ellmo said:

Or let's just all grow up! That sounds like a neat plan. Let's learn, how to respect other's opinions.

You know, that last line in my piece was a joke. You knew that, right?

heh