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Death-Destiny

Possible Megawad Idea - Dark Plutonia

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Dark Plutonia - <DP.WAD>
Maps Speed-remixed: 26/32 -> THREE-QUARTERS COMPLETION
MAP01-"River of Mud"
MAP02-"Wraithglen"
MAP03-"Codex Quetzalcoatl"
MAP04-"Entanglement"
MAP05-"Ghost Quarters"
MAP06-"The Dark Side"
MAP07-"Checkmate"
MAP08-"Anti-Life"
MAP09-
MAP10-"The Unending Horde"
MAP11-"Predator and Prey"
MAP12-
MAP13-"The Grave"
MAP14-"Genocide"
MAP15-"The Dusk"
MAP16-"The Oracle"
MAP17-"Venomous"
MAP18-"Neurosis"
MAP19-"Tragedy of the Mind"
MAP20-"The Slaughtering Space"
MAP21-
MAP22-"Success Probability: Zero"
MAP23-
MAP24-"The Outer Limits"
MAP25-"The Shadowrealm"
MAP26-
MAP27-"Satan's Angel"
MAP28-
MAP29-"One-Thousand Adversaries"
MAP30-"The End Damnation"
MAP31-"Death Denied"
MAP32-"4-Gone Conclusion"

[EDIT] Everything after this paragraph is outdated... pay attention to the status list, though. Also, I'm only posting screenies of the three most recent maps to conserve memory space, bandwidth, and all that good stuff.

I wanted to ask the community if they would like me to release a megawad in the near future... let me start at the beginning.

I want to get some practice at speedmapping. What I decided is that I'm going to remake all 32 maps from Plutonia. The reason I chose Plutonia is a combination of its austere style being easier and less time consuming for speedmapping practice and because Plutonia is my 5th favorite megawad of all time <WTF right? ;)> I also wanted to practice capturing certain styles, and Plutonia had enough different themes throughout so I'd have to change my design somewhat for each map. Also, to remix a map, you have to make it similar enough to be evocative of the original, but unique enough to be a new challenge, another thing I'm going to practice.

Anyway, what I'm asking is if anyone would really want to play a megawad full of speedmapped clones once I'm finished. I'm going to pursue this anyway, but I won't release it if no one wants me too. I'm giving myself 300 minutes (5 hours) per map, not counting testing, which takes enormous amounts of time and is not necessary or efficient for my personal intentions. I would do this if I planned on releasing it. Somehow, 32 new levels never seems like a bad phrase.

To give you an idea of what you'd be in for, here are some screenies and a demo of one such level. The layout, level progression, monster placement, and texturing were completed in 300 minutes. This map has been tuned as though it were being released for the sake of this demo. This is a remake of map27, "Anti-Christ," and is titled "Satan's Angel." and, be forewarned, as a clone includes such things as hidden archviles who respawn other demons and that can't be killed until the end of the map (though I did try to make this more fair and less random.
Edit: While the the previous demo included the original map, that is actually against copyright laws, so the new demo only has the remixed map. If you want to compare them, check out map27 of Plutonia.

Get it here: http://files.filefront.com/Trinitymap27wad/;9661081;/fileinfo.html

This project would probably take me until May to complete. Tell me if you'd like it, and of course give feedback on my map if you want.

Wow. I talk alot. I'm done now. =P

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Speedcloning?

Interesting... I'd play it.

It was neat, I looked at the screenshots before reading the post and though, "Wait... is that Plutonia? Erm.. no. Maybe not."

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Dunno if thats such an good idea including the original map, so the layouts are the same if thats the case don't bother uploading it to the archives then it will be rejected.

I personally think the original maps were allready pretty good looking but it would be an interesting set of maps, maybe you could go for (G)Zdoom.

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Seems similar to Wonderful Doom or Remain (depending on how much they'd follow the original layout).

I couldn't successfully download the file to check (File Front fails it), but make sure it requires Plutonia.

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myk said:

I couldn't successfully download the file to check (File Front fails it), but make sure it requires Plutonia.


It doesn't. I checked it in Slumped.

Good map though, I say you should go with it.

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dutch devil said:

Dunno if thats such an good idea including the original map, so the layouts are the same if thats the case don't bother uploading it to the archives then it will be rejected.


If you're talking about the inclusion of a copyrighted Id map with the project, then yeah, not a good idea to upload to the archives, however, if you were talking about the wad being rejected because the maps bear resemblance to the original maps (despite being from scratch), then that's pretty absurd. Nothing wrong with recreating something from memory or observation.

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I havn't played that map in a long time, so played the original first. Yours is great and an improvement imo, especially because the higher difficulty. The bfg/invuln are in a better place too. Chances are if the whole thing was released I wouldn't remember to check this forum at that time.

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Cool. It's good to see that there's some interest in this. =)
I'll go ahead post my progress in this thread as I go. FYI, I'm probably going to remix the maps in a random order by drawing numbers out of a hat of something unless I get a cool idea for a rendition of a specific map. So here's where I am now, since I obviously only have one map:

Edit: See the first post for the progress list

I'll put this in the first post too since this post won't be convenient in the future.

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myk said:

[...]but make sure it requires Plutonia.

That's not necessary. This isn't the official copyrighted iwad by ID, this is a remake made by memory/observation. If this was made to require plutonia, then the doom 64 TC might as well require a legal copy of doom 64 or an emulation of it.

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Jim Rainer said:

That's not necessary. This isn't the official copyrighted iwad by ID, this is a remake made by memory/observation. If this was made to require plutonia, then the doom 64 TC might as well require a legal copy of doom 64 or an emulation of it.

This is not quite the same situation. Technically, the Doom 64 TC does illegally redistribute ripped sprites from the N64 game, and so should legally require a ROM for its data. Yes, I'm aware that they had encouragement from some of the developers, but that doesn't mean Midway gave permission.

In this case, the maps based on the Plutonia ones could be considered derivative works, but I'm not sure about the legality here since I don't know too much about what id allows in terms of using resources from different IWADs.

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Update: I just completed my speedmap of map 13, titled "The Grave." To jog your memories, that was the one with the yellow key at the beginning that you get assaulted by mancubi after you get it. It also had the arch-vile and six chaingunners raise out of a blood floor later on. This one went pretty smoothly; I only lacked time for a few minor texture alignments.

This brings the total number of maps to 2/32. 6% completion isn't too amazing, but hey, it's progress.

Screenies: [Outdated]

In addressing the legality issue, I was certain there was no issue up until this discussion. The three Id iwads all have the same legal status, so as far as I know, all their resources can be used so long as the levels themselves aren't used as a base for modification. As we all know, Id made the game in this modular nature so that people like us can modify it. However, while I have no source suggesting its illegal, I also have no source stating its legal either. Since I'm treading dangerous waters, Dark Plutonia will require Plutonia.WAD until I get more concrete infomation on this. =/

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Now that I think of it, wouldn't it require plutonia anyways? Considering this is a remake of plutonia, wouldn't it use the plutonia-exclusive textures?

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Death-Destiny; here's a quote of the id CEO talking about how resources can be used. Scroll down to Risen's post.

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stickguy5000 said:
i don't know too many people who really cared for plutonia

That's odd, because Plutonia gets a good amount of tribute and attention. Currently a whole team is working on Plutonia 2, and recently Hobomaster released a Plutonia level.

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stickguy5000 said:

yeh i don't think this will be the greatest idea ever cause i don't know too many people who really cared for plutonia

Are you serious? I don't know many people who don't love Plutonia. o_O

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Jim Rainer said:

Plutonia is horrible in terms of music choice (honestly, the d_bunny song for a map?, and the early levels look horrible.

I didn't agree : I think the bunny song is perfect for map11 because I've really imagined to be a rabbit hunted...

Btw I look forward for your megawad Death-Destiny ;)

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esselfortium said:

Are you serious? I don't know many people who don't love Plutonia. o_O

I don't 'love' Plutonia. Then again, I don't hate it either. :)


Death-Destiny - The bigger problem was that you included a actual Plutonia map, and made it not require Plutonia. Doing that, you gave away part of a commercial product for free.

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Death-Destiny - The bigger problem was that you included a actual Plutonia map, and made it not require Plutonia. Doing that, you gave away part of a commercial product for free.

Crud. O_o I can't believe I overlooked that. I replaced the demo with a version excluding the original map. I would assume the people from this forum who are interested in this project and downloaded the demo have plutonia anyway, so no damage done, but I need to think things through more. =/

In any case, after reading Risen's source, it appears that doom1 resources can't be used in doom2 and vice versa, but do the two doom2 IWADs count as "different games" since they use the same engine and only modify the levels, etc? It didn't seem clear, but seems to suggest that I don't need to require Plutonia.WAD since it requires a general Doom2 IWAD. hmm...

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Death-Destiny said:

do the two doom2 IWADs count as "different games" since they use the same engine and only modify the levels, etc?

Considering that they actually are two separate games, and were (and still are) sold individually, I think it's pretty clear what id's answer would be. Is it really that hard to figure out?

And besides, the post that myk linked to mentioned nothing about resources made for the same engine, but rather using resources across different games (and Doom 2 and Final Doom are assuredly different games).

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esselfortium said:

I don't know many people who don't love Plutonia. o_O

Well I don't. I prefer a more "atmospheric" wad, with raising suspense. Plutonia is kinda monotonous.

I have a hunch that newer Dark Plutonia will be released sooner than older Plutonia 2. Good luck doing it all, Death-Destiny.

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The screens look nice it does have that plutonia feel to it good luck with the project.

Plutonia maps being reworked for Gzdoom full of Gzdoom tricks new added layouts tons of detail new monsters and weapons :p

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dutch devil said:

Plutonia maps being reworked for Gzdoom full of Gzdoom tricks new added layouts tons of detail new monsters and weapons :p

Huh? o_O;

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Update: The next map in Dark Plutonia is now essentially completed. The random number this time was 11. Map11 was the arch-vile maze. The speedmapping process went pretty poorly. I didn't have time for any of the detail I wanted to add and somehow managed to get some fun gameplay for it. I was sure this would be the toughest map for me to remix, but I didn't expect to draw 11 third! At least it's out of the way. Smooth sailing from here. =)

It took some thought for how I'd do this one. Am I supposed to just make a different maze? Not acceptable. Since I doubt anyone memorized the original layout, the level would play exactly the same. Then it dawned on me. I'd make a circular maze instead of the traditional square one, thus preserving the original feel of the map, but giving it a new twist. You start in the center of the circle and work outward. I also added a nasty surprise to the gameplay, but that's a secret until release =P.

While I can't show you the layout of a maze for obvious reasons, the superimposed minimap in screenies 2 and 3 should give you an idea of what it looks like.

Screenies: [Outdated]

Whew! 3/32 , 9%, completed. Keep moving.

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