What's your taste in maps?

WARNING: Long Post!

I thought this tread would be cool here where new projects are discussed, so that I (and others who try mapping) know what others would REALLY like to play. I have a funny feeling that mapping for doom is sometimes a futile effort, since nobody seems to have patience to actually PLAY those levels as they were meant to be played.

Basically the question for everyone is, what is it that you search for in a map? What is it that keeps you glued to playing levels, or better to say, what tickles your curiosity enough to steel yourself to avoid typing that I-D-C-L-E-V word? Does your preference lie in more old-school gameplay or are you a sucker for scripting and complexity?

Like, for instance, one determining factor for me is the use of textures and size of the map. My preference is a map which looks good and playes well, due to it's compact size, or tense gameplay and atmosphere.

Basically, a map that uses too many stock textures looks really decrepit to me, even if the author put an enormous effort into detailing it, tweaking it, in the end I fail to notice the effort. To me, there is nothing more boring than a repetition of, by now totally overdone techbase-hellcave-city-wood themes.

On the other hand, I absolutely LOVE the inclusion of quake, gothic, spacey, or any textures that basically change the feel of the map, if they aren't just an excuse for masking lack of talent in mapping. Light usage of scripting, adding a few decorate monsters, perhaps a 1 new weapon, or trying out some surreal, kicky, off-beat ideas really enhances the gaming experince. Basically, I play most everything on gzdoom nowadays, shich means inclusion of those creative ideas is big plus for me, if it still stays true to simplistic gameplay of doom.

That's why I loved plutonia. It was gameplay-oriented, never overworked, but mostly very stylish and fun as hell. I don't want to promote anyone's individual work, but I'd mention Hellcore 2: map11, Ultimate Torment & Torture, Sapphire, B.P.R.D.'s Equinox and Mucus Flow, The Darkening 2, Requiem: map08, Suspended in Dusk, Some late Alien Vendetta maps, Dark7, Hell Revealed: map26, Doom 64: In the Void, works by Agent Spork, Brotherhood of Ruin, Crusades and Phobia as examples of maps that are just sexy. None of them alter the basic doom gemplay and intent, but they expand on it greatly to good effect.

On the other hand, Deadalus was a typical example of a project that requiered a vast effort to make, but in the end wasn't enjoyable at all. Without meaning any offence, I also think Deus Vult I & II were also overworked and ended up feeling "too much", although I admire Huy Pham as a designer. To me it's all about atmosphere and immersiveness, not technicality, detail, fancy scripting or number of linedefs.

Another thing: I much prefer a constant tense action that makes the player look around, than what seems to be a trend nowadays: having a player lonely wander around the corridors for 3 minutes, then, suddenly pitting him up against a horde of 200 ravenous revenants, pinkies and archviles.

How about others?

I didn't read the whole thread but I think this is a great topic and the kind of post I'd make on DW. I like old school maps. I like modest amount of detail that's used to create atmosphere the way it was used in DOOM. Atmosphere I like is any of the first three DOOM episodes. Levels like e3m4, e2m4, e1m4, e1m3 and of course e1m7. You make a level as good as e1m7 and you will go down in history as doom mapping god. Nuf said.

The reason I think too much detail is bad in doom is because it often means a map has to stick to a grid. A perfect example of this is Vrack series. Because there are so many 2 sided lines to make detail, the map has to be on the horizontal and vertical axises much of the time so that the layout of the map suffers. As a result, for me, the atmosphere ends up being very stale. If a wad is going to be in its own original style and not like old skool ones, then it shouldn't be too big--the size of the original doom maps were great--and the mishmash of themes were interesting (as opposed to the unity found in the Thy Flesh Consumed episode where you feel like you know the whole level as soon as you enter,which lessens the feeling of discovery. I prefer partially or mostly linear maps over non linear ones (ie original doom episodes). I detest maps that have a grid or city like layout. The thing I didn't like about Thy Flesh Consumed is that the levels were either all wood or all marble. Level 5, though, admittedly, is a cool map, but I think that episode 4 redux that got honorary mention last year in the annual wad review was a great episode, a great example of what I like.

I think the original Doom episodes made the best utilization of the Doom engine as far as amount of detail, intricacy of the maps, and size of maps and should be modeled after in map design. That's all for now.

yeah basically i like the same thing as artillery i guess.... but to me the biggest challenge of levels are my favorite, like the deus vults. i also like insanely nice looking and detailed maps, such as deus vult 2's cathedral map was nice and i liked crucified dreams a lot too. deus vult 2's hells vendetta was a really fun map too. and i like all the classic megawads too, like requiem, alien vendetta, plutonia, scythe 1 and 2, you know.... ya

One possible indicator of good/fun gameplay is whether a level requires complex/intricate keyboard input to beat it on speed or maxkill runs. If you look at the keyboard input and see repetitious or simple patterns, it might be a boring level.
For example, I forget but it might be level 32 in hell revealed 2.. the most boring part is the beginning imo where you strafe out of cover, fire, repeat, which is a simple boring pattern.

Also, I hate getting lost or searching for stuff which merely require tedious time consuming search algorithms. The route might be obvious to the creator who knows it by heart, but not to a new player who frustratingly backtracks pressing spacebar everywhere.

Big, ones that feel like a "quest". Generally modern/near future (as doom is in the generic 'future' that could be anywhere from the low budget 80's warehouse future* to the far future when we have silver space stations everywhere) industrial with plenty of brick and brown, a tad silver and some offices and interiors. Grey and water is another favourite theme, preferably with grassy/muddy outdoor areas connecting "installations". I also love the use of skies to set a mood.
Maps with a lot of brown metal and a foreboding atmosphere are great too. I'm still annoyed Securitron 3 was never finished!
In general, i prefer hordes of weaker enemies with a scattering of medium ones (caco-HK) and a few 'spaced' encounters with the bigger ones, and a traditional big boss at the end. However as these are regarded as predictable a big boss in the middle can be interesting too. Big slaughterfests in the style of DV can be cool too, in moderation, and they have to be possible too.
Difficulty/Ammo wise, i tend to prefer stuff that's decent but erring towards easy. I like blowing stuff away but don't just want 3 invincibility powerups to every imp and seas of ammo.
Soo i suppose my ideal map would be an industrial/grey one on the scale of DV
(and now i remember i was supposed to download DV2 while i was at home, gotta go another couple of months without playing it now)


*-see everything MST3K ever did that wasn't from the 50's or Japan

I prefer old-school UDoom-style hellish levels, with moderate traps and monsters. I like them to end with a big fight, preferably with a boss monster in tough conditions. And to be as large as possible, but with enough action, not to feel like chores.

well, i play phocas island 2 and the original deus vult ad infinitum,
but my favorite map would have to be either chordg or chord3.
i highly enjoy the difficult and "tense" gameplay of those maps.
another couple maps that i very recently enjoyed much are maps 23 and 31 of DVII.

so...i suppose you can say that i like a bit of it all.

I've always liked levels that "used to be something". If I could recognize a level to be a waste disposal plant, for example, and it's made well, I'll like it a lot, because making Doom levels look like they've been used to something has always been a challenge.
Of course, this won't work in Hell themed levels, except for castles, altars and stuff like that. :D
But, if the level is made using a real reference, like a school or an apartment, it'll suck. They often are damn boring and ugly.

I also like ingenious intuitions like puzzles and inventive secrets.

Hellbent said:

You make a level as good as e1m7 and you will go down in history as doom mapping god. Nuf said.

Agreed, that level captures the old-school feel like perfection. I also have a thing for e2m7 for some reason, it's just.... unique.

The reason I think too much detail is bad in doom is because it often means a map has to stick to a grid.

Good point. I screwed myself up this way, when i started early on, I got all smitten over the pretty rooms, that I forgot all about the layout (which still isn't my strongest point).

I detest maps that have a grid or city like layout.

Me tew. I can't remember many city levels I liked. They almost always have confusing layout and overly sprawling progression, the gameplay feels unnatural (due to many height differences), and it requires a healthy dose of detailing to avoid the level looking bland, squarish and boring.

I don't know how many of you have played quake, but the original episode 3: Netherworld was another great set of levels for me. Kinda like quake's version of plutonia with compactness, stylishness (those indoor gothic metal areas, yummy!), not too much detail and pacy gameplay. Then again, I like everything that looks dark, otherworldly, evil, surreal or satanic.

Another thing that I personally can't understand is stinginess with new texture resources. I mean, the original doom set had almost no cool rock, stone or metal textures, therefore, it was imposible to make a cool mine shaft, or a mountain, or an evil chapel without making it look cartoonish and goofy.

That's why I admire the effort of people who made new texture sets for others to use. More textures= more available themes= more fun.
I don't believe there are too many idiots who would actually take others resources without giving proper credit. Having to make your own textures slows down the mapping process a lot, plus not everyone has a talent for creating them.

P.S. Hope no one gets offended, it was just my opinion.

It's hard for me to define what I do or don't like in a map without using a thousand words that contradict each other, but I'll try..

Atmosphere and theme is definitely up there. A love a weird mixture of creepy and cozy (a balance of scary and safe places) kind of like map28 or the backpack secret on map06 - a mixture of earthy/organic, colorful hellish, or library/wood. I also love good clean techbase (episode 1 feel) and run-down industrial, as superbly exemplified in Suspended in Dusk. I like at least a moderate amount of detail (hard to say when it's too much or not enough).

I like large maps with open areas with spacious fights, connecting smaller, more confined areas with tighter battles. Most of my own maps tend to have that basic element of a large foyerish area connecting lots of other areas, though it doesn't have to be that way for me to like it.

Good secrets and random side-areas also make a level more enjoyable, like you're not just on a key-searching treadmill the whole time.

I generally don't like puzzle maps, annoying mazes, or having to backtrack through boring repetitive areas, or being expected to know things that are not obvious to anyone who doesn't already know the map.

Personally I've always been a little obsessed with otherworldly and underworldly maps - I'm thinking about trying to make an underworld-themed magawad, but if I did, it would take a crazy amount of time and effort to make it to my liking.

I also like CC2's Mucus Flow, and the inside half of map32. And I really love map29 also - an epic flavorite. yeah...

I guess I'll throw out my opinions too. =)

In terms of level design, my favorite theme is the red hell-cave level (Last episode of Scythe, last 4 maps of AV, "Cacophony" for 1monster.WAD, Last 2 maps of Scythe2, you get the idea...) However, any map that has a solid theme is also desirable ("Mucus Flow," "For We Are Many," Fate in Blood," from the CCs) Even a simple map is good is well composed, like Plutonia's maps.

I prefer shorter maps that take 10-15 minutes and as such don't require a huge time commiment to play. An occasionally large map is fine too for when I've got the time to play it.

In terms of gameplay, I prefer really hard maps with hordes of revenants, cybs, arch-viles and what-have-you (HR2, the ridiculous end maps of Scythe2, the last 5-6 of AV...). In the end, I play Doom for a challenge and there needs to be a high chance of dying. I don't mind easier levels either if the gameplay is still forces you to keep moving and isn't repetitive.

Things I don't like to see are levels were the author declines to give you enough ammo so that you have to run away from what would otherwise be an easy fight, that prevents 100% kills, or that means you're screwed if you miss even a couple of shots. I don't like secrets that are unmarked or that really annoying 1-pixel offset you can't see unless you know it's there already. I also don't like gameplay where you stand around forever waiting for enemies to kill each other, being forced to kill 30 hell barons with a SSG, inescapable hazards or ones that you must run through w/o a suit, or arch-viles/hitscan fights without cover.

From what I can tell just from these responses, everyone's personal preferences are completely different, so a megawad cannot possibly appeal to everyone. The key to creating a successful megawad is to make most of the maps appeal to the largest number of people, but to include things that will still make it more acceptable to those who just won't like main concept of the maps... in my opinion anyway. =P

I prefer maps that are nice too look at without being over-detailed, and have good gameplay. As far as themes go, I like infested, run-down tech-bases and lava and blood-soaked hell. There needs to be some interesting ideas implemented, too, not just your standard run-and-gunning. Though, those are fun, too.

Atmosphere atmosphere atmosphere.

Realism. And I don't mean "KDIZD", I mean accurate texture use, believable archetecture, with everything having a purpose (if you can't benefit from it, why have it?).

BPRD is probably my favorite mapper of all time. He understands this, or if he doesn't, his subconscious still does. :P

Seriously, PLay Equinox and BPRD's map from CC2. you won't regret it.

Another thing I like is to have everything accessible, open, secrets galore. If you can see it, you should be able to get to it, no exceptions. THE ABYSS is where I find this. every nook and cranny can be explored if you look hard enough.

Anything that's done well. It might sound a cliche, but it's true.

But if I had to mention something in particular, I mostly enjoy things that experiment with Doom, the engine, the monsters, the graphics, the concept(s), anything, and produce something out of ordinary, may it be a serious, half-serious or a complete joke map. Super Sonic Doom, Night of the Homeless, CIF 3, Phocas Island, N00b Project 5, Impse and Cybie are some examples of such projects. These kinds of wads might not all be pure gold, but they are worth playing/seeing just to see what else has been done with this tried and true, now ancient game.

I also like Ruba's maps. I like how naive they are (for today's standards). :)

Csonicgo said:

Realism. And I don't mean "KDIZD", I mean accurate texture use, believable archetecture, with everything having a purpose (if you can't benefit from it, why have it?).

BPRD is probably my favorite mapper of all time. He understands this, or if he doesn't, his subconscious still does. :P

Seriously, PLay Equinox and BPRD's map from CC2. you won't regret it.

Another thing I like is to have everything accessible, open, secrets galore. If you can see it, you should be able to get to it, no exceptions. THE ABYSS is where I find this. every nook and cranny can be explored if you look hard enough.

I agree, if you can see it you should be able to get to it ... somehow.

A coherent theme, lots of atmosphere, and keep the details to a larger scale. Dutch Devil's maps, Simplicity, and RTC-3057 are great examples of this. Make sure there is enough ammo to kill everything. Avoid, the "find the misaligned texture amongst all the other misaligned textures in the level" type of secrets. I loathe those.

My taste, huh?

I can describe it in a nutshell as 'Claustrophobia + KDiZD', but for the reading type who don't like TL;DR'd sentences..

A well detailed map which makes it more believable, areas which keep your interest and which might awestruck you upon first sight and most likely upon others. An interesting storyline to go along with it and a purpose to play it. Good scripting to enhance the mood and storyline even further. New weapons, monsters, maybe even bosses and items are a good plus. A generally nice difficulty level, the wad being somewhat lengthy but still provide lots of fun along the way.
Custom graphics are also a plus, and also the levels having a specified theme and such will really help it.

And if the pack itself contains characters too, letting the player get attached to them is a definite plus too. Claustrophobia succeeded in that area greatly, and some humor works good too.

I like maps where you have to think strategicaly to beat it. Perfect example: Doom2 map 11. Levels where the only thing that counts is the guntrigger and a hella lots of monsters are often very very bad levels since they often lacks in replay value. One such level is map 30 in Doom2. I also like maps where the levels are so complex that you have to locate some key in a totaly different area to unlock a door near the exit. I also love levels where some random events are used. Say creating in new enemies that wasn't there to make the map more playable.

Abandoned Cities,Hospitals,some wads come to mind like Hellcore 2.0 and City of the Damned 2,a little bit of Eternal.Can't wait for the Doom 2 remake.

I've never really been interested in megawads. I'm generally interested in wads that try to create something different.

I really enjoy huge nonlinear environments with heavy focus on exploration. I like E4-styled maps a lot, and really enjoy settings that differ substantially from standard Doom. I have a real distaste for tech-bases and hell themes.

I'll play just about anything. I'm really partial to maps with thousands of monsters on it, so long as there's sufficient health and ammo availible.

Alien Vendetta, Hell Revealed, Kama Sutra, Scythe 1/2, H2H series... whatever it is, it better be coopable.

My mapping philosophy:

Theme: Maps should have consistent themes. I will consider this before any other detail. Themes can usually accommodate most map layouts, so nothing needs to be accommodated when the theme is decided. Doom2 Example: Downtown

Set Pieces: Every level must have at least one ‘choreographed’ battle. This should be considered next as the level will then be built around it. More elaborate set pieces can result in portions of the map to become linear. Doom2 Example: Tricks and Traps.

Level Flow: A good layout to a map is vital. It should be possible, when all keys and switches have been done, to get from any one part of the map to another reasonably fast. You should be able to see places you’re yet to visit and a degree of non-linearity should be encouraged. A good layout prevents a map from becoming simply a series of rooms. The map layout will be drawn when the theme has been decided and set pieces considered. Areas should be positioned but detail within the areas is not important at this stage.Doom2 Example: Circle of Death.

Thing Placement: Important thing placements can be added to the sketches of maps but, because at this point only the layout of the map as a whole has been drawn and not the layout of individual areas, most thing placements will be considered at editing stage. Thing placement is extremely important to get right as it determines the balance of game play. Rigorous testing should be done to make sure thing placement is spot on. Doom2 Example: Dead Simple.

Landmark: Good architecture is not as important as level flow, thing placement or set pieces in making a level playable but it does add identity to your maps. For this reason at least one ‘landmark’, that is to say a unique piece of architecture, should be included in every map. Doom2 Example: The Crusher.

Detail: Detailing, when separated from layout and architecture, becomes almost superfluous to how your level will play. However, some details should be included as it adds atmosphere to your map and allows the players to better immerse themselves into the game. Most important is effectively and neatly applying and aligning textures - keeping in consideration your theme. More detail can then be added. Doom2 Example: Inmost Dens

Lighting: An absorbing atmosphere is even more so attributable to good lighting. Many aspects of the Doom world can be unreal or illogical but lighting in most cases should be placed to reflect how it would appear in reality. Ways should be considered to mix a good contrast of light and dark areas. Though dark/dim arrears are often most atmospheric these should be used with a degree of restraint to avoid overuse.Doom2 Example: Waste Tunnels

Classic maps with classic gameplay the more stock textures it uses the better and enough detail, detail that makes sense and doesn't distract the player or gets in the way of gameplay.

Non linear maps are my tastes lately free to do whatever you like take any path you like not being forced into one direction all the time, traps alot of traps sometimes it just releases one monster or an reasonable amount of monsters or just an huge group of nasties at once for no apparant reason that will completely surprise you.

I like maps with an good creepy atmoshpere, so creepy and dark that you almost too scared too continue further down that hallway, an good amount of secrets, secret areas that are designed in such an way that you can see the stuff inside it but don't know how to get to it and have to puzzle an bit to get into it.

Working on the layout/detail crew in 32in24 has made me aware of a few things about ideal Deathmatch level design.

1) It's 2.5D for a reason
I can't count how many times I've enjoyed playing a map that's completely flat from end to end. Probably because counting to zero isn't actually counting. Maybe I've spent too much time playing ACTUAL 3D games, but I feel this is a pattern that needs to end. Sure, maybe there's something resembling an incline... maybe a few stairs leading to the flag. Other than that, I might as well turn off mouselook. OR... you know... people could start implementing changes in elevation.

2) Jesus Christ, more hallways
Self-explanatory. People spend so much time outlining every roof with iron girders and making sure every hanging corpse has its own intricate cubbyhole to notice that their layout looks more like a huge Wolf3D map. Inside track: people are even LESS inclined to look at your 12 hours of detail work when they're walking around saying, "where the fuck am I?"

3) Oh God, I can see forever
At the opposite end of the spectrum are the maps that take up a large expanse. I suppose it's an awesome feeling having even your Plasma Rifle become totally useless as people can see it coming a mile away. God help people who aren't playing on an OpenGL port or don't have the resolution cranked up all the way, or else they'll experience the most painful pixel hunt since late '80s LucasArts games.

4) Eight
Stop making maps that look like an 8. I'll take an open arena over another goddamn 8.

5) Duck and cover
Put cover in your maps. Like, things to hide behind. Maybe put a medikit back there. Remember: retreating is a strategy, too; running back for health and re-joining the fight is perfectly fair. Of course, if you went to the George W. Bush School of Tactics, then feel free to call me a weak pinko hippie terrorist sympathizer.

6) Make a map without the Super Shotgun
Go ahead. I DARE YOU. Oh, can't do it? Too much for you to handle? How about at making it as hard to obtain as other weapons that are equally as powerful (i.e. plasma rifle, rocket launcher)? At least stop giving it to everyone right as they spawn, then. If I want to play one-hit kill, I'll go to another server. Thanks.

7) Powerups
Or, severe lack thereof. People seem to be genuinely afraid of the Invulnerability Sphere. Nor can they correctly use the Blur Artifact, Goggles or Rad Suit. And when's the last time the Berserk pack was used to kill, as opposed to emergency health?

Heh! I think Artillery and I have quite different tastes.

Artillery said:

To me, there is nothing more boring than a repetition of, by now totally overdone techbase-hellcave-city-wood themes.

I really like the Scifi/tech base theme, generally, but the stone and rusty metal theme looked good for a while (to me) and then became old and dull very quickly. It doesn't stop it regularly cropping up though.

Artillery said:

On the other hand, I absolutely LOVE the inclusion of quake, gothic, spacey, or any textures that basically change the feel of the map, if they aren't just an excuse for masking lack of talent in mapping.

I find the inclusion of Quake and Gothic textures dull dull dull dull dull. I didn't think Quake textures looked that great in their original game and then compromised by palette and used in just about every WAD released since people figured that it could be done make them (IMO) possibly the most dull, ugly and predictable addition to a WAD. There are loads of other games that textures could be taken, and adapted from, yet all we ever seem to see are the dull (in all meanings), predictable Quake stuff. Would you like some brown with your brown? Gothic textures as well I just find dull and boring most of the time. I know it's the nature of the game but endless dark stone and wrought iron shapes with inverted red crucifixes... Well, again, it's just predictable. Also, I find it often has overtones of a "mmm, yeah, Gothic is so cool, I think I'll touch myself" puerile wank-fest. However, I welcome spacey and scifi textures to compliment the kind of scenarios I like. In fact, just seeing new textures is great. Original textures are fantastic, but not enough of us have the skills to make them. Playing a WAD that uses an unusual source, UT, Max Payne, RTCW, FAKK2, MoHAA... is new and interesting. Recycling Quake or Gothic99 yet again is not. Those textures have been used so often they almost feel like stock textures to me.

Artillery said:

Light usage of scripting, adding a few decorate monsters, perhaps a 1 new weapon, or trying out some surreal, kicky, off-beat ideas really enhances the gaming experince. Basically, I play most everything on gzdoom nowadays, shich means inclusion of those creative ideas is big plus for me, if it still stays true to simplistic gameplay of doom.

I'm quite ambivalent on this one. I guess I like both, but I'm not that keen on the middle ground. I like playing something very new, innovative, scripted and with lots of new weapons etc. Equally, I like playing something quite simplistic (one of my most played ever add on maps is NiGHTMARE's nb_wst01.wad which is a very simple little WAD). What I don't like is a half-hearted inclusion of an additional monster or another weapon just for the hell of it. Usually they stick out as not part of the game and because the approach wasn't more complete, they feel really tacked on. It's worse when the monster/weapon has been used many times before. For example, I'm getting really fed up seeing that floating half-baron-in-flames monster that seems to be a compulsory mini boss these days.

Artillery said:

That's why I loved plutonia. It was gameplay-oriented, never overworked, but mostly very stylish and fun as hell. I don't want to promote anyone's individual work, but I'd mention Hellcore 2: map11, Ultimate Torment & Torture, Sapphire, B.P.R.D.'s Equinox and Mucus Flow, The Darkening 2, Requiem: map08, Suspended in Dusk, Some late Alien Vendetta maps, Dark7, Hell Revealed: map26, Doom 64: In the Void, works by Agent Spork, Brotherhood of Ruin, Crusades and Phobia as examples of maps that are just sexy. None of them alter the basic doom gemplay and intent, but they expand on it greatly to good effect.

I personally really don't like Plutonia much at all. I didn't like the look or the gameplay of the levels and, to me, it is the weakest and most dull of all the official IWADs. I've played it through a few times and I just don't get it. I can't see what other people see in it. I find it excruciatingly dull at times. Most of the other maps you mention, however, are very enjoyable. So maybe we're no so far apart as I first thought. ;)

Oh, and just to mention it, I think "Thy Flesh Consumed" is an awful episode for many reasons.

Artillery said:

On the other hand, Deadalus was a typical example of a project that requiered a vast effort to make, but in the end wasn't enjoyable at all. Without meaning any offence, I also think Deus Vult I & II were also overworked and ended up feeling "too much", although I admire Huy Pham as a designer. To me it's all about atmosphere and immersiveness, not technicality, detail, fancy scripting or number of linedefs.

I don't think Daedalus was as bad as a lot of people now seem to think it was. I had fun playing it but, yes, I remember elements of it being a bit disappointing - exactly what, I don't recall. Equally, though, it did have some impressive and innovative stuff that I did get a kick out of. The Deus Vults are just not my cup of Earl Grey. They are hugely impressive and amazing achievements but I find it hard to keep myself interested in playing them and, as often as not, will have cheated to massacre the monsters before I get to the end of the level so that I can have a wander around and look at the map because, whilst the technical skill of them may be worth looking at, I don't find the maps particularly fun to play and they usually don't keep me hooked enough to want to bother.

Artillery said:

Another thing: I much prefer a constant tense action that makes the player look around, than what seems to be a trend nowadays: having a player lonely wander around the corridors for 3 minutes, then, suddenly pitting him up against a horde of 200 ravenous revenants, pinkies and archviles.

Not sure what you mean by "constant tense action". If you mean always having a fight on your hands then dear lord no (for me). Levels where you may as well just sellotape the fire button down because it will always be pressed send me to sleep - or rather just get me quitting and consigning the map to the recycle bin. I prefer constant tension that plays on your fears, keeps you on your toes by raising and lowering the intensity of the threats you are likely to face - but keeps you in a constant state of credible and believable fear that whatever may be around the next corner, or through the next door, is going to be nasty. I think Lexus Alyus' "Real of the Green Soul" was a very good example of a tense map that kepp you busy and tense, yet didn't do the whole army of revenants thing you mention - which I agree is a real turn off (as would wandering around for too long with nothing to do be).

So, what do I like? Well, I think that distilling down the above you can probably just about get that I like scifi and tech bases. I also like maps set in believable places (again, Realm of the Green Soul works for me as an example). I don't mean that the map has to feel real. Frankly, I don't really think that is possible in the Doom engine (or any other game I have met to date). I just mean that I like it when a map has a feel of "this place could exist" in a strange pixellated 2.5D kind of way. Hell maps don't generally do it for me. Castles and medieval structures are (again, generally) not my favourite, but there have been some cracking ones that I really enjoy. The whole Gothic thing has become so overdone (IMO) that it just pisses me off and it's an almost instant "quit and trash" when I load up a map like that. Quake (particularly Q2) themed maps are difficult for me. Often they are a techy-theme that I like but done with those predictable textures (and often sounds). If I really like a Quake themed map, I've seen me bothering to retexture it to use something a bit more interesting on the walls so that I can enjoy the look of it as well as the genre and gameplay.

Gameplay wise, I like fighting intelligently used smaller enemies. The former humans and things like the imps make great adversaries as far as I'm concerned. But I like my mancubus, hell knight and baron battles too. Quite recently I've enjoyed a few maps that have pitted me against a larger than should be comfortable pack of cacodemons coming for me. I really don't like the army of revenants approach or the almost compulsory inclusion of an archvile (or multiple archviles) that we seem to see so often. I'm sure the manual says they are rare dammit! Lost souls, IMO, are just an annoyance but Pain Elementals are, true to their name, painful - the pain is, of course, in the ass. But, the actual enemy used isn't so much the issue as how they are used. A constant barrage of enemies is not fun, IMO, and I like intelligently placed enemies and traps or logical fights (ie fights where there is a reason for the enemy to be there) as opposed to every door opening up to reveal 500 more revenants screaming at me.

I personally love wads that are consistent with the previous level. Its kind of stupid when at the end of one level, you press a switch, and in the next level, you are somehow in another realm, or something, and you have no idea how you got there. Its one of the things I never liked in the original dooms, or even in the recent wads! That has to be one of the most laziest level endings ever! I can kind of understand the teleporter ends, but the switch ends are retarded.

I also like jump puzzles. Just adds a bit of variety to the game from all of the monster fighting, hell-slime avoiding, crusher dodging, switch finding 'puzzles' of the game. But overly long or difficult jump puzzles really suck ass. Especially if its the type that kills you instantly, and you have to start the level over again, or have to re load a save.

I prefer an open area level, where you have to find the keycards to access a new building or area, especially in co op. In linear levels, you die in co op, you have to start from the very beginning, run to where all of you allies are, and find out that all of the fighting is over with, the next area is open, and your allies are there fighting, and now, your way behind. In courtyard, or checkpoint style maps, you die, its a short run back to the battle.

Intersting, it seems Dutch Devil and, to some extent, Enjay both have tastes that are almost opposote to mine (esp. Dutch Devil). Which is fine, because that's what makes us different in the first place. :)

Oddly enough though, I actually really enjoyed the works by those authors.