Zombies - harder than imps and pinky demons?

This may sound odd, but I've found as of late that, of all the Doom I enemies I've faced, one of the most intimidating is actually the zombie (pistol and shotgun). Think about it: It's the only enemy in the first Doom other than the spider mastermind whose attack is near instant-hit and isn't traceable. You can't tell where it is or where the shot's going to go, and it happens very quickly. That adds a certain unpredictability.

Sure, imps' attacks are more powerful, and they're a little harder to take down, but come on: Even on Nightmare, I'd say that their fireballs are quite easy to dodge, especially from longer distances. You can easily spot and maneuver around them. At least I can. Plus, the aim of the zombies is much less predictable, meaning you could get hit even if you do dodge. When I'm running to another part of the map and have to run past a big pack of enemies, I'm much more certain I won't get hit if they're a bunch of imps than if they're zombies.

It seems to be a common argument that the zombies are the least to worry about simply because they're easily killed and don't do a lot of damage, but I actually find them more intimidating than pinky demons or imps. Maybe I'm just a very weird Doom player. In fact, I think I've gotten hurt loads more times by zombies than by many others (albeit with less risk of death by comparison to stronger enemies). Granted, many would argue that this is because zombies are so common, but when firing into a group of enemies, I tend to prioritize who I kill first, and zombies are often my first goal (unless pinky demons are drawing rather close). A group of zombies can spell disaster pretty damn quick if I don't take advantage of their fragility.

Has anyone else felt similarly? Or am I just really off-kilter?

Zombie Seargent and Commando are pretty lethal.
Pistol zombies in large packs can also hurt.

Try and play Twilight Warrior 'properly' using short bursts of fire and acting like there could be hostages anywhere (even on levels where the text file has told you there arent any). It's bloody hard. Of course you can always just switch to the OICW and flatten everything, though

Legacy has for (too fucking)many versions had a bug where transparent textures will have solid black replacing the transparent bit. When you walk into rooms that are supposed to have 'cages' of zombies but you can't tell which ones which you die within a minute.

Also sewer levels with a lot of them, damaging slime and little health can wear you down gradually and make you think about every step and save every time you have to make a run across the slime, in case it knocks off 5% of health and you find there's nothing on the other side

deathbringer said:

Legacy has for (too fucking)many versions had a bug where transparent textures will have solid black replacing the transparent bit. When you walk into rooms that are supposed to have 'cages' of zombies but you can't tell which ones which you die within a minute.

In my experience, Legacy has been bloody hogwash. PrBoom is easily the best one for me.

Demons are cake, their just ammo wasters. Shotgun guys are hell. Play Knee-Deep in the Dead on nightmare. You will never hate shotgun guys more than when you play those maps on nightmare.

On Nightmare, perhaps. Otherwise, I don't usually have a problem with zombies.

It's true. Seargents and chaingunners can be a real pain in the ass when your not quite prepared.

chaingunners suck when they are right in front of you then you pick up a weapon as soon as it sees you.

Butts said:

chaingunners suck when they are right in front of you then you pick up a weapon as soon as it sees you.

This, and when an Arch-Vile is placed nearby so whenever you kill the chaingunner, he just resurrects (like Plutonia map01 as an example).

JohnnyRancid said:

Demons are cake, their just ammo wasters.

In -fast mode, however, Demons are the fiercest monsters, even tougher than the hitscanners. If you bump into a fast Demon you're eatten.

The Archvile is also a hitscan monster and his threat is comparable to the bossy Spiderdemon's.

In sewer maps with many zombies I merely solve the problem by switching to the chaingun. They fortunately die easily to chaingun and most of them are Chaingunners anyway, so ammo's not wasted.

Fireball monsters more rely on player's clumsiness and on cornering. Barons of Hell are effective on this. They take awhile to die and their attacks can be shocking. Running away while rubbing on a Baron or Knight can be lethal.

Don't you think that -fast Demons are more dangerous than -fast Shotgunners?

Unless there's a lot of them, troopers are just spare ammo. Sargents demand more respect than imps - so I shoot them first. Chaingunners are one of my pet hates - especially when they're hidden from view.

It's part of the very good balance of Doom's monsters that near all of them have the ability to provide a challenge to a player regardless of whether they have a pistol and 50 bullet's or a plasma rifle and loads of cell's, armour etc.

All I'm going to say is that I'd rather meet a Baron than a shotgun or chaingun zombie.

Vermil said:

It's part of the very good balance of Doom's monsters that near all of them have the ability to provide a challenge to a player regardless of whether they have a pistol and 50 bullet's or a plasma rifle and loads of cell's, armour etc.

Yeah but I still think the Imps are somewhere down the trophic chain. I like putting Dark or Flying Imps when that's the case. Or give all Imps flying abilities.

Speaking again of zombies, do you like the dual-wielding chaingunners? I yes, because they scream of Wolfenstein. In case I keep my word, my possible vanilla megawad, despite being for Doom 1, will have them.

For me, on E1M1, I found it a little easier on ultra violence because there are two shotgun zombies in the first room. Kill them, pick up their shotguns, and the rest of the level is easy.

I kind of like chaingunners. 2 well placed can be very deadly. I use a lot of hitscan enemies in my mods (none released yet) and very little projectile enemies (except arachnotrons.), and it gives it a good amount of difficulty.

Arachnotrons are a hell sometimes. But when it comes to hell nothing beats the Rocnotron that I'm currently developing and testing. It shoots tracer rockets, faster than the infamous revenant.

GreyGhost said:

Chaingunners are one of my pet hates - especially when they're hidden from view.

I agree. I HATE chaingunners that are hidden behind a non-transparent texture and just blast you. This gets even worse if an Arch-Vile is resurrecting them behind the wall, so you try to kill them but just keep getting shot and shot....

Zombiemen are generally less of an issue than imps, while shotgun guys are a bit more (yet fortunately easier to pick out).

Pretty much off topic, reading about philosophical zombies made me think, "hey, these are DOOM's voodoo dolls!"

myk said:

Zombiemen are generally less of an issue than imps, while shotgun guys are a bit more (yet fortunately easier to pick out).

Pretty much off topic, reading about philosophical zombies made me think, "hey, these are DOOM's voodoo dolls!"

Cool - didn't know that.

When every attack becomes deadly (so your health = minimum damage of the zombieman) the zombieman is more dangerous then a cyberdemon if you have all weapons and full ammo.

Shotgun guys almost certainly cause more damage to me than imps do, especially on maps where they're close to you. And chaingunners are horrible. One of my least favorite aspects of Plutonia was the copious amounts of chaingunners everywhere.

I hate Chaingunners and Shotgunners with a passion. Zombiemen aren't so bad.