Independence, a sin?

In the spirit of the Afterlife thread, I thought I'd activate the spin machine on The Fundie Movement.



Remember Pokemon? The movie, that is?

http://www.capalert.com/capreports/pokemonthemovie.htm

Yeah, you know it. Everyone talked about it. Before Harry Potter showed up, the only thing the fundies had to pick at besides tamagotchi was Pokemon. It's not obvious why. At first you'd think they'd be after the "Fighting" of the animals, relating it to something even Michael Vick would find scary. But, the obvious criticism is never mentioned.

"Magic" as a concept in Fiction usually brings Fundies to fire their lazors at seemingly harmless stories. While the Bible itself is full of crazy magic itself, the thought of Pikachu zapping that 11 year old twerp brings instant coorelation to Wicca,Satan, the Occult, and Louie the Lightning Bug.

If you remember the first pokemon movie, or went to see it just to see what the fucking fuss was about (Which was what I did initially), You probably remember that it still seemed to teach a moral story to the children.

However, the review linked can only talk about things that I didn't notice, or no one else noticed until this review was passed around the church mailing list (not as a good thing, but as a bad thing: Some of us Christians actually poke fun at fundies). Some of us still didn't see it. And if we didn't see it, the kids won't either.

Regardless, here is the list of the "bad" things in Pokemon...

# possession of psychic powers to control others and to kill
# anger with immense power and presence
# lust for power, control, and independence
# "follow your hearts" into dangerous situations
# rampant confrontation with finality and with doubtful consequences
# battle and other forms of fighting to settle differences with no consequences to the opponents other than loosing a pokemon
# portrayal of tears having the power to resurrect
# misguided and often absent concern for the "death" of a "living, thinking being" (a pokemon)
# "Circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant:"

Did anyone catch that line?

That's right! Wanting to be free is directly against the Word of God.

If I were to give this "review" any merit ( and I don't) then the desire for freedom, for Independence -- is sinful. What would The Founding Fathers think of this garbage? is this what Fundamentalism breeds?

The bible is full of (often not too subtle) hints that the church and government should be obeyed without question.

Something else funny - check out the intro to The Way of the Master. I burst out laughing when I saw the part where they describe the "technique of bypassing the intellect" and how it "makes the gospels make sense".

Wanting to be free is directly against the Word of God.

Essentially, yes. I have a friend and an uncle who deliberate endlessly on the meaning of Biblical scriptures, and therefore bombard me and anyone else constantly with them. I recall this being something they said at one point, which sparked a several hour debate. According to them, absolute self-sacrifice is required to enter Heaven, which is actually stated in the Bible (I forget where).

The bible is full of (often not too subtle) hints that the church and government should be obeyed without question.

It actually states very blatantly that all laws of whatever country or city you live in are to be followed, except those that interfere with God's laws. The reason for that being Jesus' words "My kingdom is not of this world", therefore it isn't our place to get involved with lawmaking or protests or whatever. Again, I'm not sure where these verses are, but they're there.

Long-standing religious works have been meddled with by countless hands attempting to provide for their interests, so you'll find many things in them, from conceptions that are critical or self-critical (wary of the religion's possible pitfalls) to extremely sententious decrees.

Csonicgo said:
If I were to give this "review" any merit ( and I don't) then the desire for freedom, for Independence -- is sinful. What would The Founding Fathers think of this garbage? is this what Fundamentalism breeds?

It's pretty clear that independence from God is seen as wrong by Christians. It's main concern seems to be domination by the individual, though, assuming that it is necessary to ascribe to certain rules to maintain it in check. The conclusion it reaches it that the movie is not suitable for (particularly Christian) children.

The word "freedom" (the one Mel Gibson likes to bellow and that American nationalists seem to hold as their standard for some reason), isn't really mentioned.

It does bring up some points that might have some merit (although I'll reserve any more final judgments till I have become more familiar with the Pokemon movie... quite likely never), but may also be displaying a lack of faith in parenthood and parents' ability to show the differences between fiction and reality to their kids. The analysis does fail to specifically mention where in the movie it sees these relations of violence, witchcraft, and dominance, which further erodes the so-called analysis.

Maybe some of the Founding Fathers would have agreed to a point, maybe some would have rejected it outright, considering it seems like advice and not a ruling with consequences to the general population, although they likely would have considered it rather trivial or unsubstantial.

I vote we dump all the fundies (Christian, Islamic, Hindu & etc.) on an island where they can decide amongst themselves who's faith/god is best. The last surviver can be the next Messiah.

Fraggle said
they describe the "technique of bypassing the intellect" and how it "makes the gospels make sense".

Lobotomy without surgery - that I've got to see. :-)

The big problem is that fundies don't seem to know what "Wicca" and "witchcraft" really mean.

GreyGhost said:

I vote we dump all the fundies (Christian, Islamic, Hindu & etc.) on an island where they can decide amongst themselves who's faith/god is best. The last surviver can be the next Messiah.

I think all we'd see from that is a giant mushroom cloud.

See, the thing is, I have no idea where in the bible, talmud or q'uran where it actually states that you aren't mostly free to be whatever you want - so long as it isn't blasphemous.

That's the problem with fun-dumb-mentalists, they just don't have a clue. They think that the bible is literal, but how can something written by idiots that starved themselves until they hallucinated be taken serious?

NiGHTMARE said:

The bible is full of (often not too subtle) hints that the church and government should be obeyed without question.

The bible is generally full of it.

fraggle said:

Something else funny - check out the intro to The Way of the Master. I burst out laughing when I saw the part where they describe the "technique of bypassing the intellect" and how it "makes the gospels make sense".

Oh man, I had never seen that site. Amazing. I needed to have slept, and here I am four hours later still in fits of laughter.

fraggle said:

The Way of the Master

Jesus, just watch the video on "what happens when we die". It's not only contradictory, but judging by the standards they are using, everybody is going to hell, including them. But of course that's not the case and only they know the one truth of the Bible. :p

YAY RELIGIOUS DEBATE!

fraggle said:

Something else funny - check out the intro to The Way of the Master. I burst out laughing when I saw the part where they describe the "technique of bypassing the intellect" and how it "makes the gospels make sense".

Haha, I like how the final step is "Visit the Online Store". They're even more blatant than Scientologists.

# possession of psychic powers to control others and to kill
# anger with immense power and presence
# lust for power, control, and independence
# "follow your hearts" into dangerous situations
# rampant confrontation with finality and with doubtful consequences
# battle and other forms of fighting to settle differences with no consequences to the opponents other than loosing a pokemon
# portrayal of tears having the power to resurrect
# misguided and often absent concern for the "death" of a "living, thinking being" (a pokemon)
# "Circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant:"

*Epic facepalm.*