Offtopic: More Kreed

http://houseospank.com/cgi-bin/news/stories/2002/01/18/10113354189.shtml

"Probably the single most impressive thing about Kreed looks to be it's engine. Named X-Tend it is simply incredible, and if you have a GeForce 3 your in for a real treat. The engine has been compared to the likes of the Doom 3 engine, that's how good it is. Models will look extremely good with 4000 polygons and they will move in an eerie, lifelike fashion thanks to the skeletal animation. The skeletal-animation system supports 120 bones per character so you can imagine how cool that will look when in motion!

The physics of the engine sound very sweet as well. Objects can be moved around, rolled around and dropped. And it will be done realistically, the way an object moves will depend on numerous things, such as it's weight, what material it's made of, the kind of surface it's on, etc. Projectiles will richochet and damage objects they strike and explosions will cause damage to nearby objects and surfaces. All of this will add up to a very "real" world to play in."

And doom3 can beat this!?

Judging from the videos of the Kreed engine, I'd say that "Doom 3" is in a very good position to beat Kreed.
Kreed looks good and all and game physics are claimed to be splendid.
But Doom's engine has "real" lighting, Kreed doesn't (although its lighting effects do look great), and from what I've seen, Doom's character models look so much more realistic.

On to the game physics: We haven't been told anything specific about "Doom 3's" physics, other than "the game is going to have realistic physics", so we're in no position to judge wether Kreed has an edge over Doom in this case or not.

That's true, and also you must realise that Kreeds almost finished..and we've seen lots of stuff about it, which explains why many here aren't overly excited. Doom on the other hand..Well we've seen next to nothing,(sorta) and they are only really just getting started... and what we HAVE seen looks phenomenal. I just hope it's NOT overhyped :|

That's true, and also you must realise that Kreeds almost finished..and we've seen lots of stuff about it, which explains why many here aren't overly excited. Doom on the other hand..Well we've seen next to nothing,(sorta) and they are only really just getting started... and what we HAVE seen looks phenomenal. I just hope it's NOT overhyped :|

Personally, I think it will be overhyped. I mean the name "Doom" alone is enough to generate a frantic hype, so Id really have to overdo themselves to just meet those standards which their fans expect.
I'll be happy if Id makes an absolutely brilliant game, which has lots of "nods" back to the original games (many elements from the old Doom games) and introduces lots of new, never-seen-before stuff. And above all, I hope for a game which is as entertaining as the original.
RtCW lived up to my expectations (and I'm a fan of the old Wolf3d too), so I have confidence in Id to at least make a game, which I wont be overly dissapointed with.

Yeah, I agree. RTCW was over-hyped, BIG time and unfortunately some people were dissapointed with the end result, but I liked the game coz It was exactly the type of game it should be, IMO. Hopefully they can doom right as well because so much is riding on this as you said, the name DOOM is the hype by itself.

I still don't know what to think of Kreed. The engine looks pretty solid (the water looks lovely) and we heard a lot of good things about it, but it will never be a Doom 3 killer or Unreal 2 killer in any way. This seems to be the designers' fault mostly - I feel there's too much fussy detail and bright lights in the scenes to make it look special. Doom 3 seems to be going in a very different direction by putting in very dramatic scenes with a great attention to artistry and atmosphere.
Or, y'know, whatever.

I still don't know what to think of Kreed. The engine looks pretty solid (the water looks lovely) and we heard a lot of good things about it, but it will never be a Doom 3 killer or Unreal 2 killer in any way. This seems to be the designers' fault mostly - I feel there's too much fussy detail and bright lights in the scenes to make it look special. Doom 3 seems to be going in a very different direction by putting in very dramatic scenes with a great attention to artistry and atmosphere.
Or, y'know, whatever.

I agree. Doom 3's atmosphere looks to be the most detailed and immersive one yet.

can anyone say, "bathroom scene?" jesus, that still freaks me out...

can anyone say, "bathroom scene?" jesus, that still freaks me out...

This shows that Doom 3 will have a fairly realistic setting - we still haven't seen anything that points in the direction of a realistic setting in Kreed yet - only base-like areas, which according to some DW members are badly designed (I'm not into level designing so I don't know too much about it).

dsm - let me quote you RedWood from Stomped:

"The Doom Video shown was even more impessive that what was seen at MacWorld.
There was some of the same stuff shown, but a lot of new stuff, including an impressive bathroom scene. The scene had a white tiled bathroom, with a swinging light. There was a body of a hefty man on the floor and a four legged creature (pink demon, returning from the old Doom games) with a lot of teeth ambled in.
It wit then proceeded to gnow on the body parts and move the body. As it did so, the body moved and jiggled as it were real. It was very gruesome and nice looking."

Do the thinking yourself.

It wit then proceeded to gnow on the body parts and move the body. As it did so, the body moved and jiggled as it were real.

Jim Dose released a desktop screenshot of his Visual Studio development environment a while ago and one of the files in the VC++ project for Doom was named 'iktail.h'. Apparently this stands for 'inverse kinematics', or the jiggliness and other physics aspects of models. I'm sure Zaldron could give us a better explanation if he feels up to it.

Urinals !

FlatHead - yeah, I remember Zaldron's comment on this, back then when the screenshot was released.

After the non existent physics in RTCW, I'd expect a decent physics implementation in DOOM!

With Jim Dose and Jan Paul Van Waveren working on it, I am sure it will be the best possible!

dsm - let me quote you RedWood from Stomped:

"The Doom Video shown was even more impessive that what was seen at MacWorld.
There was some of the same stuff shown, but a lot of new stuff, including an impressive bathroom scene. The scene had a white tiled bathroom, with a swinging light. There was a body of a hefty man on the floor and a four legged creature (pink demon, returning from the old Doom games) with a lot of teeth ambled in.
It wit then proceeded to gnow on the body parts and move the body. As it did so, the body moved and jiggled as it were real. It was very gruesome and nice looking."

Do the thinking yourself.

Yeah and?
What did I write which was incorrect? Was it that I wrote that we don't know much about "Doom 3's" physics?
We actually don't know an awful lot, sure we know that bodies jiggles realistically, but that's only one bit. We don't know anything on weapons physics, death animation physics (although this 'jiggling corpse' in the bathroom scene promises well for death animations) or any other environmental physics whatsoever.

Please point out which of my statements excactly you disagreed with.

Bodies jiggle realistically since Hitman. It's about having enough reasons to actually code a realistic physics model. It looks like in this case it's much needed given the photorealistic looks of the levels. Nothing says "ASSTASTIC" better than the Miracle Crate That Never Falls Down.

So basically, if this means what I think it means, is that no more will crates be floating off the edge of walls, therefore if you push it far enough it will tip over and fall? and a body that is half over this same ledge will dangle..... This is what Inverse Kinematics is isn't it?

Yeah, basically. IK's nothing more than bones with certain parameters that define certain rotation limits. Your arm, for example, is not able to freely rotate in every way possible. When this is combined with a decent physics model, you get joints that react to the effects of gravity until there's a collision, or until you reach the maximum rotation for that specific bone. While this happens, the mass center moves accordingly, modyfing the results until it reaches an optimum rest state.

Cool, yeah I understand, but it's something that most games still need, take alook at most FPS, except for Hitman, body's in walls.... massive crates sitting on nothing except maybe a corner on a ledge, it kinda breaks the experience..for me anyway.

And it does it too for me. From now on all Unreal engined games should support the Havok physics engine, so it's hard to believe we won't see this kind of stuff on DOOM.

Besides this is something the people have been asking forever. Bigger and bigger textures will never fix the atmosphere-shattering nightmare that is seeing a corpse levitate over staircase just because one toe is touching the floor.