FreeDoom with all of the levels finished! ;)

OK, I did it. Tired of waiting for the FreeDoom levels to be finished (complete with difficulty levels) the hard way, I took the FreeDoom wad and replaced all of the levels with OBLIGE (actually, ObHack, my private fork of Oblige) levels.

So, now, there's a version of FreeDoom with all of the maps finished. Finally. Yes, I did cheat. :)

http://www.samiam.org/slump

And scroll to the bottom of the page.

Hopefully, we will get a 32inOneWeek or some such underway so we can have more refined levels (not to knock OBLIGE; it's really great for what it does and I'm really looking forward to the up and coming OBLIGE III).

- Sam

Anybody can do this, and it's not very unique nor very fun to play 32 maps of computer generated levels.

Oh, I agree. So, tell me, what levels have you contributed to FreeDoom and what work have you done with the levels?

I mean, this is free software. If you don't like seeing FreeDoom with Oblige levels, well, make some levels by hand. Or finish up the levels FreeDoom already has.

It's easy to flame someone on a bulletin board. But, if you want to be respected and not look like a whiner, you can actually gett off of you butt and contribute some FreeDoom levels.

Or work on getting the 32in24 for FreeDoom levels or whatever going.

I got sick and tired of people doing nothing more but talk and talk and talk about finishing the levels for FreeDoom for years on end, yet not having a FreeDoom wad with all 32 levels finished, so I took matters in my own hands and finished the levels.

It wasn't flaming, just plain criticism. Posting OBLIGE levels here advertising it that you "completed all levels" is no different than uploading them to idgames claiming it's original.

I suck at making levels, but that doesn't stop me having more fun with real, human-made levels than OBLIGE levels.

samiam said:

Oh, I agree. So, tell me, what levels have you contributed to FreeDoom and what work have you done with the levels?

I mean, this is free software. If you don't like seeing FreeDoom with Oblige levels, well, make some levels by hand. Or finish up the levels FreeDoom already has.

It's easy to flame someone on a bulletin board. But, if you want to be respected and not look like a whiner, you can actually gett off of you butt and contribute some FreeDoom levels.

Or work on getting the 32in24 for FreeDoom levels or whatever going.

I got sick and tired of people doing nothing more but talk and talk and talk about finishing the levels for FreeDoom for years on end, yet not having a FreeDoom wad with all 32 levels finished, so I took matters in my own hands and finished the levels.

You're kidding, right? He's a whiner because he didn't like the levels that a computer program made for you, that he or anyone else with a computer could have made (and which would have been considered equally not worth uploading)?

I apologize for accusing you of flaming. Here on the internet it's hard to see facial expressions and understand the tone people speak to me in. I'm very cynical; on forums like this, there's a lot of people who are very cynical and edgy. I apologize for being cynical myself.

I don't believe you suck at making levels. I think you could make good levels if you set your mind to it. I'm no expert at it, but I did play around with Doom Builder modifying some OBLIGE-generated levels.

My experience is that making levels by hand is t-e-d-i-o-u-s. I think a lot of people don't realize how hard it is, say they'll make ten levels for FreeDoom, then realize how much work it is and decide it's more fun to flirt with pretty girls on MySpace or what not (something I much prefer doing than making FreeDoom levels).

What I have done is make a lot of improvments to Oblige called ObHack, which is ObLige with a number of bugs fixed and some more features. It's not perfect, but it does make Oblige a bit more fun.

I actually prefer computer generated levels because, to be honest, I suck balls at playing Doom (I don't even have a mouse, so I have to play using the keyboard!) and most human-made levels are made by people who have been playing Doom every day since 1993 and are impossible for me to play and enjoy since I almost immediately get killed by all of the monsters.

I know that a lot of people here don't consider computer-generated levels real levels. This is why I added the "WTF" icon, and why I added a smiley in the subject line, so people would know I was not being entirely serious. No, I don't think I finished all of the levels, but I do think I have a FreeDoom wad that I can enjoy playing myself. Who knows, maybe it will inspire someone to say "You know, I really ought to work on that FreeDoom level I promised to make!" :)

Anyway, I would work on levels myself, but I have a job, and not as much time to work on levels as I would like.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback and keep in touch.

esselfortium said:

You're kidding, right? He's a whiner because he didn't like the levels that a computer program made for you, that he or anyone else with a computer could have made (and which would have been considered equally not worth uploading)?

Ah yes, I remember you. You're pretty hardcore against computer generated levels as I recall. Well, I'm the opposite; I'm actually prefer computer generated levels to hand-made ones. And, oh, I actually have made a lot of tweaks and modifications to said computer program to tweak the levels it generates to be more to my liking (and I know at least one person who appreciates my tweaks)

Anyway, let's get down to business: What levels have you contributed to FreeDoom? If you don't like computer generated levels so much, I suggest making some more human generated levels so that people don't have to use random map generators to play FreeDoom (which is pretty much the case right now).

Uhh. What? o_O A while back I spent quite a bit of time modifying OBLIGE to improve the themes and whatnot that would come out of it. I'm very interested in the whole process of computer-generated levels, but there is absolutely no reason for anyone to upload a megawad of them as a contribution to Freedoom or any other project.

Again, you cannot possibly be serious. "What levels have you contributed to Freedoom?" If we're talking about levels that are actually created by a human, I've contributed the same amount that you have: zero.

Freedoom has maps. It might not have 32 full maps, but last I checked it definitely has quite a few of them.

There are also thousands of PWADs in the idgames archive that can be played with Freedoom. PWADs that were actually designed by, you know. People. PWADs that can't be automatically generated by anyone with a random seed and a copy of SLIGE or OBLIGE.

You have not created anything, you have not actually done any work for Freedoom, and this is not a legitimate contribution.

Here's my opinion on this...

While the idea of replacing all the maps with computer generated levels is preposterous, computer generated levels would be perfectly fine imo as replacements for the filler maps at the time being. At least this would make freedoom feel a little more complete while the real maps are being designed for those mapslots, and the real maps could be placed into their respective slots when they are finished.

esselfortium said:
You have not created anything, you have not actually done any work for Freedoom, and this is not a legitimate contribution.

That's not true. He certainly coded part of the program he used to make the computer-generated levels, and (less importantly) may have spent some of his time customizing Oblige and selecting the specific generated levels.

Besides, there is absolutely nothing wrong with him hosting a version of Freedoom with these Oblige maps on his page. Freedoom is made to be modified by people, and this version with the artifically generated maps doesn't replace the one at the Freedoom site.

Samiam may have over-reacted somewhat to MikeRS's comment, which did sound overly negative considering what samiam did is pretty harmless and might be of use to some, either directly or as a showcase of what Oblige can do.

People can play and look at this Oblige version of Freedoom and get a free to use and download idea of what Freedoom is offering (except the levels), and what Oblige can offer.

I'd like to take this time to state that I really enjoy ObHack!

Generated levels are as good as null placeholders. Lacking in personality, style, and cohesiveness. You'd have to be a nut if you prefer them over hand-crafted structural work. Oblige or ObHack can not "finish" Freedoom as much as I have "finished" OQPlus by nulling out unfinished resources with placeholders.

Hello.
I'm using freedoom 0.6.2 and prboom 2.4.7
I cannot end a map (Level 10: Refueling Base). I cannot open the door seen in first screenshot. Please help.
Screenshots:
http://www.250kb.de/u/080530/j/7fc8da1a.jpg
http://www.250kb.de/u/080530/j/d082091f.jpg

id1402 said:

Hello.
I'm using freedoom 0.6.2 and prboom 2.4.7
I cannot end a map (Level 10: Refueling Base). I cannot open the door seen in first screenshot. Please help.
Screenshots:
http://www.250kb.de/u/080530/j/7fc8da1a.jpg
http://www.250kb.de/u/080530/j/d082091f.jpg

Last time I checked this map was not yet completed and could not be finished.

Ok. Thank you. So can you give me the cheat to get to next level?

id1402 said:

Ok. Thank you. So can you give me the cheat to get to next level?

Should be "idclev11".

Great! Your cheat works. It can go on in freedoom. Thank you very much, boris.

Hello, is there any maps that are not being worked on by anyone at all, at the moment? I might have a go at making one

Freedoom is pretty much dead; Jon has stopped maintaining it and no one has offered to take the reins. Probably for the best; the project has been pretty much foundering for years.

samiam said:

Freedoom is pretty much dead; Jon has stopped maintaining it and no one has offered to take the reins. Probably for the best; the project has been pretty much foundering for years.

I thought fraggle was still in charge of it?

what do you have against freedoom samiam :'(

id1402 said:

Hello.
I'm using freedoom 0.6.2 and prboom 2.4.7
I cannot end a map (Level 10: Refueling Base). I cannot open the door seen in first screenshot. Please help.
Screenshots:
http://www.250kb.de/u/080530/j/7fc8da1a.jpg
http://www.250kb.de/u/080530/j/d082091f.jpg

The door in the pic is a "fake" door. There is a fully working map 10 at free.doomers.org as well as other maps just waiting to go into a new release of freedoom.