A True Wolf3d TC

As everyone knows Laz Rojas did a damn fine job on alot of his Wolf3d wads...but I found a TC that should be on every wolf3d fan's hard drive
I ran across it last night while I was searching for some sprites and textures for redstar.

(I dunno how to do the link so just copy and paste it.)

http://afadoomer.com/wolf3d/about.html

This emulates Wolf3d perfectly(From what I've seen,I didn't play it for long last night)and everyone should check it out.He has all of the original Episodes and Spear of Destiny.
I can't figure out who did it,but if it's someone on doomworld I have to give you props...great work.

Like I said...give it a try

I played this TC before and it's very good
and you can even transform Wolf maps to wads!

It's hard to tell if that was Sarcasm or not...

No it wasn't

Seriously I play it on a skulltag server, and I love the idea of wolftodoom maps without any changes to the original

I never thought someone could make almost a perfect TC of the classic wolf 3d

Yes, I've been aware of this TC for some time. It's been discussed a lot over at the Zdoom forum. It is a stunningly "total" TC and I have to keep reminding myself that I'm not actually playing a modern port of Wolf, but a TC running with (G)Zdoom.

I think I just peed a little

Ah yes, AFADoomer's excellent piece of work. One of the best conversions I've seen. With his knowledge of coding and my constant bug testing and accuracy checking along with the help of many others, this is one TC that truly is a TOTAL conversion.

This sounds interesting, I think I'll try it out.

ohg timeline

I need to get in touch with him and find out where he got all of the wolf3d music.I have the dos program for that but alas...I run vista.

What sort of of "advanced ACS scripting" is needed to simulate a game more simple than Doom itself?

Mancubus II said:

What sort of of "advanced ACS scripting" is needed to simulate a game more simple than Doom itself?

Well, something more advanced than lower the light in a sector, spawn a few imps and then raise the lights again when all the imps are dead. ;)

Seriously, I think there is some fairly heavy scripting in this to give the game the appearance of Wolf 3D. If you haven't played it, it really doesn't look much like Zdoom at all. It's a convincing recreation of Wolf, complete with things that are normally considered part of the engine done in ACS. I'm not saying it is the most advanced scripting ever done but it is more advanced than the simple level manipulation of an average mod. I guess it all depends what you mean by "advanced". ;)

Fisk said:

ohg timeline

OMG "timeline" is so timeline.

Enjay said:

OMG "timeline" is so timeline.

OMG "timeline is so timeline" is so timeline...

Good, but it has imperfections:

1. As this is a ZDoom wad, it's very odd that Wolf3d pushwalls aren't represented by polyobjects in here. No, they're simple vanilla-standard raising doors, which also close after awhile! This adds a side-effect that adjacent secrets wouldn't be openable, and that secrets wouldn't block further areas any more (noticeable case: E4M2).
   
2. The bosses fall too quickly i.e. they're too easy to kill. See Hitler.
   
3. The textures all use the lighted versions, but the 255 light-level doesn't make dimishing, so the use of the darker versions would have made sense here.
   

printz said:

Good, but it has imperfections:

1. As this is a ZDoom wad, it's very odd that Wolf3d pushwalls aren't represented by polyobjects in here. No, they're simple vanilla-standard raising doors, which also close after awhile! This adds a side-effect that adjacent secrets wouldn't be openable, and that secrets wouldn't block further areas any more (noticeable case: E4M2).

The reason for that is that polyobjects can't cross sectors and can't share their sector with another polyobject.

As a result, they can't replicate the behavior of pushwalls in the places where it really matter.

I wonder how difficult it would be to convert Return to Danger and Ultimate Challenge as well. They might be a little less frustrating that way.

Blake Stone is in the same format as Wolf too, so it could be done as well.

Gez said:

The reason for that is that polyobjects can't cross sectors and can't share their sector with another polyobject.

Uh, what? Every single pushwall can stay in its own sector! And special ACS measures could be taken up where pushwall collisions can happen.

Add another imperfection: nazis hearing you beyond walls. That I don't remember happening in AFADOOMER's project. And it can very well be achieved in Doom. Just like how common-sound areas share the floor codes in Wolf3d, so they share the SECTOR in Doom.

This might have been answered in the thread or somthing. But what's the point? Just play Wolf3d instead.

printz said:

Uh, what? Every single pushwall can stay in its own sector!

No. There are places where two pushwalls can pass through the same square, depending on which is pushed first.

Don't believe this hasn't been asked for several times. And, given how doors are translated as polyobjects, don't believe that the conversion tool cannot do polyobjects.

kristus said:

This might have been answered in the thread or somthing. But what's the point? Just play Wolf3d instead.

Wolf3D is without mouselook, without console, without the potential for other niceties like dynamic lights (in GZDoom), without the possibilities of replacing (some of) the graphics by hires ones from the Mac port.

Why play in an advanced port rather than an old executable? Because the advanced port is advanced. That's all.

kristus said:

This might have been answered in the thread or somthing. But what's the point? Just play Wolf3d instead.

I'm addicted to mouselook and I cant run New wolf on my comp for some reason without it acting weird.

Gez said:

No. There are places where two pushwalls can pass through the same square, depending on which is pushed first.

If that happens, then approximations can be made (make one polyobj only move as far as where it's expected to do so), to make it not exactly like Wolfenstein, but otherwise, where approximations don't have to be made, then leave it as it is, with sectors for each polyobject.

Door-raise secrets are buggy anyway (enemies open them), so they should be replaced anyway.

Wolf3D is without mouselook,

You cannot WASD-mouselook in Wolf3d, but you can mouse-move. Try it. Should be fun, and it gives better accuracy than the keyboard, especially if you depend on Dosbox and if it actually works. Strafing with the mouse shouldn't be very limiting in Wolf-engine blocky games. There's hardly any need to circlestrafe (hitscanners hit you anyway) and the environment is all at 90 degrees anyway. It's more of a shoot-duck gameplay, which is suitable for basic strafing.

Oh, and another imperfection: the Pac-Man ghosts shouldn't be solid. But they are, in the mod.

Surely a series of instant-lower sectors could be used to simulate the effect of a "block of wall" "sliding" into a room

I started work on a Wolfenstein TC some years ago, ran into varying problem of trying to replicate the engine, then gave up. I came pretty far too. One of the problems was dealing with the enemy damages, and how bullet shots hurt closer up. I could never exactly nail this down. The polyobjects were also tedious.

Also, there is the problem of getting the enemy animations and behaviors/damages right. A look at the source code would give some useful information here.

It's a pretty monumental task to get something that is extremely close to Wolfenstein. In my opinion though, get it as close as possible to the original or don't try at all. We don't need another WolfenDoom...

[Edited because I misunderstood the original post.]

EarthQuake said:

I started work on a Wolfenstein TC some years ago, ran into varying problem of trying to replicate the engine, then gave up. I came pretty far too. One of the problems was dealing with the enemy damages, and how bullet shots hurt closer up. I could never exactly nail this down. The polyobjects were also tedious.

Also, you have the problem of getting the enemy animations and behaviors/damages right. A look at the source code could give you some information to shed light upon this.

This is a pretty monumental task if you're trying to get something that is extremely close to Wolfenstein. In my opinion though, get it as close as possible to the original or don't try at all. We don't need another WolfenDoom...

Good luck.

Don't shotguns do proximity damage?Perhaps you can figure out a way to make the enemy attack with the shotgun perimeters without them actually having to have a shotgun...

I'm not really worried about prox damage on my wad though...I guess redstar is more inspired by Laz's work.

Yes, the shotgun-type attack was the closest I got to the behavior. Still, it was quite off when testing the original game. Addendum: by making the bullet puffs invisible (as Wolfenstein had none), it was more convincing, but the damage outcomes were not in my favor.

My main problem with Laz's work is that the bosses had the same attacks as the monsters originally had.So you had Hans throwing a green fireball.So I went in there and changed it to the Spider Mastermind attack and dampened the damage a little.

Gez said:

Wolf3D is without mouselook, without console, without the potential for other niceties like dynamic lights (in GZDoom), without the possibilities of replacing (some of) the graphics by hires ones from the Mac port.

Why play in an advanced port rather than an old executable? Because the advanced port is advanced. That's all.

First of all the port is an "exact" replica of Wolfenstein 3d. And second of all, there are advanced ports like OpenGL for Wolfenstein 3d too.

Okay, so I actually played the TC linked above, and I have to say, I'm quite impressed with it. I especially love the work that went into creating all the menus. Everything about it was pretty spot-on, although some things worth pointing out:

• The bullet puffs should not be present.
  
• Polyobjects would have indeed been better to use as opposed to "doors" for the pushwalls. Not to mention, some of the pushwalls were triggerable on multiple sides, creating some bugged places displaying HOM.
  
• The damages for enemy attacks seem perfect, however, most of the enemies attack rather prematurely and without much warning -- this was a problem I encountered with my own mod.
  
• Some of the music is a bit different than I recall, particularly the title/menu music.
  
• Some of the sprites haven't had their transparency set, giving them a green-blue background. In particular, some of the statusbar sprites.
  
• The bosses indeed tend to go down rather quickly, and yet they still seem to be a huge threat. Also probably related to my 3rd point.

I can't express how well done this mod is. It's basically what I was trying to do myself, except with my own set of levels. Good stuff.