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Reaper978

Doom... Art?

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When I was a bit younger I played a lot of games. That eventually ended and I started pursuing piano. Now, I am back a bit into games, but my creative inclination remains. I can't help but come up with ideas when I am play a game - I have a vision of my own on how things should look. The visuals in doom are somewhat caricatured and I visualize how the creatures and items could have a bit more of a visual edge. I don't have any illustrative ability and I have only a rudimentary understanding of doom editing, so I don't have the technique to realize any of this.

I also notice that creatures in concept designs have all the details and character that would make for perfection in the game, but what appears in the game tends to be less detailed. I suspect this is because of limitations of what can be realistically used in a game, but it is still disappointing. The details are what makes an image (in a game or not) unique and powerful. For example:



This is such an awesome concept.

In a related topic, I enjoy seeing user-created levels. I see a parallel with music in that the author has to weave a flowing narrative. Doom's levels can be involved, creeping labyrinths, or large expanses with elaborate architecture. Doom really reminds me of Sorabji's music. Try it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GffAaIqH7-Y

Post any thoughts.

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There's artistry in game design, but playing a game and artistic design are different. It's possible to make a more ludic game where both are represented to a point, especially those aiming to define a style or tell a story, but you don't need to embellish chess pieces or adorn a football field to compete in a game.

Like you say, DOOM's graphics are limited because of technical reasons. I find them charming nonetheless. They generate a particular environment. A DOOM level may not be realistic, but it creates a sense of "being there" in that pixelated world anyway. When a simple game becomes fun there is no need to put it in reference to anything else (imagined or real), as it speaks for itself.

Even DOOM, from '93, which now seems cartoonish, was made with an intent to be as realistic or convincing as the computers of the day allowed in an enjoyable game, and that still drives the gaming industry, creating more detailed stuff as technology progresses. Looking back, though, that seems to have worked better as a motor and as something to imagine rather than something to achieve. Games keep getting "better" in this respect but, as far as I'm concerned, this progress is getting more and more into the "meh" department. Compared to the fun and competitiveness, technology mostly makes the construction of the games more time consuming, expensive, complex, obscure and reliant on technological requirements.

Detailing DOOM graphics is, in any case, rather controversial, as seen on this thread. Since the graphics are simple, they are ambiguous and often contradictory, allowing people to get different impressions about them, making one guy say "WTF?" at another's interpretation of the low resolution art.

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I agree with there being parallels between games and music. It's possible for both mediums to tell stories that are very effective, yet not at all specific in detail (and it's also possible to make game levels and songs that are more "sandboxy" - less directed and more a collection of thematic ideas). Some interesting challenges arise, however, when trying to combine the two. How can you combine a narrative game level with narrative music? To precisely accompany the changes in mood as a Doom level progresses is almost impossible, as the player is free to advance at his own rate. Later Doom engines allow the mapper to have the music change at certain points, but this tends to be jarring. This is difficult to resolve, but I always appreciate new attempts to resolve it, instead of just hearing the same recycled music tracks all over again.

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myk said:

...
Since the graphics are simple, they are ambiguous and often contradictory, allowing people to get different impressions about them, making one guy say "WTF?" at another's interpretation of the low resolution art...


Good point. That's exactly the reason why Doom is my favorite game - the gfx are not too "bad" nor too "good", leaving the viewer with the perfect impression if he let's it happen.

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Interesting ideas. As the technology of the game advances, so too do the demands on the designers. I honestly prefer 2D graphics to 3D - 3D seems to be considered "superior", but models make for far higher requirements on the system when sprites could look just as good if not better.

the gfx are not too "bad" nor too "good", leaving the viewer with the perfect impression if he let's it happen.

That's true, but I think this could be polished if the pixelation was smoothed over, as we see in jDoom.

But I don't see this Doom as a final product. Not that it needs to be brought up to date with modern technology, but that this "Doom" from 1993 could evolve into something timeless and refined. The game mechanics are timeless, but the game isn't.

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I've always been one to believe that super-high-res graphics and detail don't make a game good necessarily. Back in Doom's time, "groundbreaking" meant being able to create an engine capable of things nobody had ever seen for a genre of game that until then hadn't really developed. Nowadays "groundbreaking" is being able to add some extra shadows to the 3D models, and while they look cool I find that super-realistic environments are not always more immersive. I find that, in games like Doom where the graphics are relatively simple, I can feel much more involved. I think this is because, instead of trying to imitate reality as much as possible, environments in games like Doom leave a lot to the imagination and more create the feeling of reality. It's hard to describe but it more or less sums up why I like older games and 2D graphics.

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StupidBunny said:

I've always been one to believe that super-high-res graphics and detail don't make a game good necessarily. Back in Doom's time, "groundbreaking" meant being able to create an engine capable of things nobody had ever seen for a genre of game that until then hadn't really developed. Nowadays "groundbreaking" is being able to add some extra shadows to the 3D models, and while they look cool I find that super-realistic environments are not always more immersive. I find that, in games like Doom where the graphics are relatively simple, I can feel much more involved. I think this is because, instead of trying to imitate reality as much as possible, environments in games like Doom leave a lot to the imagination and more create the feeling of reality. It's hard to describe but it more or less sums up why I like older games and 2D graphics.


Yep - kinda like reading a book.

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I see what you guys mean about the imagination filling in the blanks. I was playing Grime by Death-Destiny and the hellish design combined with the intense difficulty evoked a powerful atmosphere. Great music in this, too. Real gritty, helpless feeling. I love the arch-vile resurrection, it's a cool effect to add to an already wretched situation.

Is it possible to use standard .mp3 or .wav files in a wad for music?

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@myk, bruce and stupidbunny: I think the same thing. And therefor I am looking forward to what the future holds in this regard. As I think that when games evolved enough, the deadly realism people are working so ardously for these days, will get old and the more abstract designs will make a return. There's of course already some cases of this in the game industry cropping up. Like Okami and Cloud for instance. But it's still in it's infancy and more and bigger games will come out of it I am sure.

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Low res vs high res...

...high res ain't bad but it take away some of the illusion.




Not so fast - here's a thumbnail...

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Creaphis said:

How can you combine a narrative game level with narrative music? To precisely accompany the changes in mood as a Doom level progresses is almost impossible, as the player is free to advance at his own rate. Later Doom engines allow the mapper to have the music change at certain points, but this tends to be jarring.


Lucas Arts solved the issue a long time ago with iMuse.

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Mancubus II said:

If you like that concept art image, you'll like what team future did: http://tfuture.org/files/phobos/media/phobosaction_1_1600x1000.jpg

It'll be available as the arachnotron in team future's upcoming mod Phobos.

Whoa awsome that level design looks great, and the arach looks sweet also.It makes me wonder why it wasn't in the original, along with some other missing doom2 monsters.

*sets image as desktop background*

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Reaper978 said:

Is it possible to use standard .mp3 or .wav files in a wad for music?

Yes - mp3's are supported by several source ports. It's best to convert .wav files to .mp3 - if you want to prevent your wad from becoming a quarter-gigabyte download. <slight exaggeration>

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GreyGhost said:

Yes - mp3's are supported by several source ports. It's best to convert .wav files to .mp3 - if you want to prevent your wad from becoming a quarter-gigabyte download. <slight exaggeration>

Thanks.

One other thing:




"Impression" has been mentioned in this thread so I thought I would compare Monet to doom...

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Gez said:

Lucas Arts solved the issue a long time ago with iMuse.


Very interesting. Well, I was speaking with the restrictions of the Doom engine in mind, but I wasn't aware that a system like this had been used in other games. I can't say I've noticed music engines like that in action - but maybe that's because the music then blends in too well for me to realize it.

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concept is a concept, don't expect that all concepts could be put into practical use, that's just the kind of experience every artist and designer has to go through. That's how the reality works...artists, designers, conceptualists, and such always gets paid the least coz' the products built from the base of art doesnt have constructively established economic values, except for few top executives in the industry

meh, it may be a great concept but in the end, still get thrown into trash

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