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Hellbent

monsters added to E3M8

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There's a good chance this won't be allowed, though personally I don't see a problem with it, seeing as registered Doom is needed to play the level in the first place.

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If you play the map from scratch, and avoid infight (or kill the smaller demon that's infighting), E3M8 isn't that easy. I suppose id planned it to be played more or less like that.

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On the easier difficulties with just the spiderdemon, it's a piece of cake to use the cover in the middle of the arena and screw around with the guy. But with the other demons, it can be a bit tricky. Especially from scratch.

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I find it pretty easy from scratch. As soon as the Baron gets hit, you can obliterate the spidey pretty quick. Also, if you circle strafe like mad around the spidey he often won't be able to get a shot off.

Did anyone try my version?

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Vegeta said:

If you play the map from scratch, and avoid infight (or kill the smaller demon that's infighting), E3M8 isn't that easy. I suppose id planned it to be played more or less like that.


Unfortunately, with the spider mastermind it can be hard to avoid starting an infight. His attacks are so persistent and have such a wide spread that it's pretty easy to get him to hit the baron and the cacodemons, even if by accident.

I always found E3M8 pretty easy. But then, once you get the pattern down and get good enough at strafing E2M8 is pretty easy too.

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StupidBunny said:

Unfortunately, with the spider mastermind it can be hard to avoid starting an infight. His attacks are so persistent and have such a wide spread that it's pretty easy to get him to hit the baron and the cacodemons, even if by accident.

I always found E3M8 pretty easy. But then, once you get the pattern down and get good enough at strafing E2M8 is pretty easy too.


E2M8 is considerably harder if only because it takes so much longer. Plus you gotta be careful about the lost souls. You also have to be careful of not getting to close to the Cyberdemon. And his rockets aren't that easy to see.

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On the legal side of things, I remember someone commenting that distributing modified official levels is actually allowed by Doom's EULA, as long as they require the original game to be played. Modified official levels are banned from /idgames apparently just because of a whim of Ty Halderman.

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Creaphis said:

On the legal side of things, I remember someone commenting that distributing modified official levels is actually allowed by Doom's EULA, as long as they require the original game to be played. Modified official levels are banned from /idgames apparently just because of a whim of Ty Halderman.

Stupidest whim ever if you ask me. Doom is so ooollllldddd NO ONE CARES. Seriously, no one cares if people are modifying original doom levels and distributing them or uploading them wherever. how could id possibly care about this? Legality? You're talking about a 15 year old game! Hey, Doom is as old as I was when I started playing. O_o

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Be careful with that line of argument around here. Doomworld is a wretched hive of lawyers and license nerds.

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Indeed, it's generally best to not make that argument around these parts.

Also, if I remember correctly, Ty's reasoning for not allowing modified id levels into the archive was more out of a desire to avoid "my 1st map: i added 50 cyberdemons to e1m1 ^___^!!!``" uploads, and not entirely due to licensing issues. This is why Knee-Deep in ZDoom was allowed into the /idgames archive despite all of the maps directly using iwad levels as a base.

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Hellbent said:

Stupidest whim ever if you ask me. Doom is so ooollllldddd NO ONE CARES. Seriously, no one cares if people are modifying original doom levels and distributing them or uploading them wherever. how could id possibly care about this? Legality? You're talking about a 15 year old game! Hey, Doom is as old as I was when I started playing. O_o

thems fightin werds round here boi.

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Hellbent said:
Stupidest whim ever if you ask me. Doom is so ooollllldddd NO ONE CARES. Seriously, no one cares if people are modifying original doom levels and distributing them or uploading them wherever. how could id possibly care about this? Legality? You're talking about a 15 year old game! Hey, Doom is as old as I was when I started playing. O_o

Your mom is old. I'm going to rape her.

It's not just legality. Any creative work is the authors' right to share as they please. This goes as much for DOOM, a crappy '94 level, or a super megawad released yesterday.

By saying that it only matters when money is involved you're handing the validity of copyrights to money makers. They should not have the monopoly on its application.

Also, keep in mind that if this became some kind of warez* site the guy hosting it would likely nuke it.

In any case, as Creaphis noted, you can reuse content from the IWADs, even levels, as long as that content requires the IWAD it's from.

* If you ask me, warez does a favor to humanity by allowing cheap access to information for even the poorest wretch to get a hand on the Internet, but this is not the place for it.

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myk said:

* If you ask me, warez does a favor to humanity by allowing cheap access to information for even the poorest wretch to get a hand on the Internet, but this is not the place for it.

I'd agree with that if you restrict it to illegal copies of games which no longer have legal sources outside of the second-hand market. When a publisher disappears without anyone to buy the catalog, nobody has the right to make new copies of these titles anymore... And for the natural copyright expiration, you have to wait nearly a century!

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Hellbent said:

>>> here is a harder version!

I like the original level much more :-P !

esselfortium said:

[...]to avoid "my 1st map: i added 50 cyberdemons to e1m1 ^___^!!!``" uploads

Yeah, I also did something like this and I’m very glad that modified Doom levels are not allowed, because otherwise we would have as much uninteresting levels like we would have, if slige levels were allowed to upload to the idgames data base... So, Hellbent should just try to start mapping instead of modifying. This would be better :-P !

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Yeah, I also did something like this and I’m very glad that modified Doom levels are not allowed, because otherwise we would have as much uninteresting levels like we would have, if slige levels were allowed to upload to the idgames data base... So, Hellbent should just try to start mapping instead of modifying. This would be better :-P !


http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=11595

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Deeforce said:

So, Hellbent should just try to start mapping instead of modifying. This would be better :-P !


I hate to say it kid, but you just got served.

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I gotta say...what's the actual point of submitting this? I mean, I agree that E3M8 may be too easy and could maybe use more monsters or something, but if I wanted to play E3M8 with more monsters I could add them myself in about 5 minutes. I don't care that you did, since I don't think it's actually illegal or anything (though you might confirm that) but it doesn't take a whole lot of work to add monsters to a level. That's like saying, "I worked really hard to create 32 SLIGE maps that I will submit now."

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Well, if you used SLIGE on a 486, sure it would take some time to compile a 32 map megawad. Then again, you still haven't done much (if anything), and therefore, your computer should get credit for making it.

But I always wondered. What would be less annoying to see.
Some user uploading their awesome 32 map SLIGE wad? Some user uploading there first 2 sector map? Or some user uploading their first E1M1, 20 cyberdemon addition, map edit?

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StupidBunny said:

"I worked really hard to create 32 SLIGE maps that I will submit now."

What about 32 SLIGE maps that contain multiple iwads and a shitload of unused MP3 files?

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Craigs said:

What about 32 SLIGE maps that contain multiple iwads and a shitload of unused MP3 files?


Uhh ya im not the smartest person here but me thinks that would be illegal. sounds like ur refering to that one were the the author claimed he had some disorder i forgot what. i think the name of the wad was something german.

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The one you are thinking of
is Nazi Auferstehung
and it was
really good
because the author
spent
a lot of time
stealing shit from
people
and then generating
his maps

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I found it kinda shameful that the huge arena shape of E3M8 was hardly utilized in the battle. All you really need is that big block in the middle to block eye contact with the mastermind everytime he attacks, the same way you'd fight an archvile.

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myk said:

Your mom is old. I'm going to rape her.

It's not just legality. Any creative work is the authors' right to share as they please. This goes as much for DOOM, a crappy '94 level, or a super megawad released yesterday.

By saying that it only matters when money is involved you're handing the validity of copyrights to money makers. They should not have the monopoly on its application.

Also, keep in mind that if this became some kind of warez* site the guy hosting it would likely nuke it.

In any case, as Creaphis noted, you can reuse content from the IWADs, even levels, as long as that content requires the IWAD it's from.

* If you ask me, warez does a favor to humanity by allowing cheap access to information for even the poorest wretch to get a hand on the Internet, but this is not the place for it.


You don't think you could have made this reply without the asinine sophomoric comment? I did more than just add monsters. If you play it... you'll see that. Obviously the mod won't play without the IWAD it's from.

Creaphis said:

Be careful with that line of argument around here. Doomworld is a wretched hive of lawyers and license nerds.


I don't understand why doomworld mods are all such tightwads when it comes to shit like this but it is really lame and pathetic. I just don't see any reason for it. I think my mod is completely legitimate and nothing about it is deserving of this sort of derision. Maybe I shouldn't have attacked Ty... but it's because I've run into this kind of nonsense in the past on Doomworld and it's irksome. I agree with the example made in regards to why Ty doesn't allow them.... But rude mom insults are way out of line. At least one poster here knows I'm not some idiot noob who only knows how to insert cyberdemons into maps....... This website has been recognized as a community for doomers and yet for as long as I've been a member here the mods continually behave in a manner totally inconducive to creating a sense of community. I just don't get it.

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Creaphis said:

StupidBunny: You forgot to mention the funny way the author typed.

What the hell
Are you talking about?
The way he typed was perfectly normal. Everyone on this
forum types like that. The only reason it looks
strange to you is because you're making fun of him
for being autistic
It's all his communist russian friend's fault.

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Hellbent said:

I don't understand why doomworld mods are all such tightwads when it comes to shit like this but it is really lame and pathetic. I just don't see any reason for it. I think my mod is completely legitimate and nothing about it is deserving of this sort of derision. Maybe I shouldn't have attacked Ty... but it's because I've run into this kind of nonsense in the past on Doomworld and it's irksome. I agree with the example made in regards to why Ty doesn't allow them.... But rude mom insults are way out of line. At least one poster here knows I'm not some idiot noob who only knows how to insert cyberdemons into maps....... This website has been recognized as a community for doomers and yet for as long as I've been a member here the mods continually behave in a manner totally inconducive to creating a sense of community. I just don't get it.


Well, the rights of software companies and individual artists really do need to be respected, or so I hear. As you seemed fairly unconcerned with these rights in your "Doom is so oollllddd" comment, Myk's joke changed the target of the rudeness without changing its intensity. I guess I'm used to mom jokes by now so it doesn't strike me as too out of line.

It's true, though, that your mod is legitimate and doesn't deserve derision; it's just that not everyone here realized that Ty Halderman and Doom's license disagree on a few issues.

On the subject of Doomworld's community, I will admit that I disagree with some moderation practices. Handing out insta-perm-bans to people who discuss warez when they don't even realize that's a problem seems like an outmoded way to do things. Doom doesn't have a huge juvenile player base any more; it's now played by people, who are recognizable, and are loyal and decent folk for the most part, and would not make a mistake a second time if given the chance not to make it. When one of these people is banned the hole is visible.

Also on the subject of Doomworld's community, there's that prick who keeps sabotaging your projects. This place is brutal.

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