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Lorenzo

Shadow Warrior

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Hi.

I've recently finished to play SW, and i think it's a really cool game.
If doom is number 1, Sw is number 2.
I've downloaded a lot of mods for SW, all high-quality ones.

I especially like urban levels (cities, buildings, hospitals) the engine seems right to design realistic places.

Now, is there doom mod recreating SW monsters, weapons, level?

I know SW weapons are the most ripped, but i wonder if there is a faithful recreation.

Bye !

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Lorenzo said:

Now, is there doom mod recreating SW [...] level?

No, at least I didn’t come across one :-P !

Also: most monsters are ripped from Duke Nukem 3d, Hexen and Heretic, but I don’t know a mod that includes Shadow Warrior monsters...

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I don't know where, but I have definitely seen a few of the enemies in a number of WADs (and AeoD is certainly included in that). The weapons have been seen so often that I've almost forgotten that they don't come in the Doom IWAD. :/


SW is a pretty cool game though. Most of the build games seemed to have a similar obsession with fast-talking, wise-cracking protagonists, (very) soft porn and toilet humour that I could have lived with out, and SW was no exception. Also, I've never been that keen on the feel of the build engine and, for what ever reason, a number of the main games had a similar feel to their graphics that, again, didn't quite do it for me but, yeah, SW is a fun enough distraction. It has some very novel elements and some interesting innovations.

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Enjay said:

I don't know where, but I have definitely seen a few of the enemies in a number of WADs (and AeoD is certainly included in that). The weapons have been seen so often that I've almost forgotten that they don't come in the Doom IWAD. :/


SW is a pretty cool game though. Most of the build games seemed to have a similar obsession with fast-talking, wise-cracking protagonists, (very) soft porn and toilet humour that I could have lived with out, and SW was no exception. Also, I've never been that keen on the feel of the build engine and, for what ever reason, a number of the main games had a similar feel to their graphics that, again, didn't quite do it for me but, yeah, SW is a fun enough distraction. It has some very novel elements and some interesting innovations.


I agree. But i think that build engine is able to represent reality better than doom engine. In both SW and DN3D there is much more interactivity with the surroundings.
And about the "soft porn and toilet humour", well, i like it... perhaps doom is too much seriuos.

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With modern ports, that interactivity difference is significantly reduced and there isn't really much that Build can do that certain Doom ports can't do, or do an alternative of, but yeah, I get your point. Mind you, if I wanted to recreate reality in a game, I don't think I would be using Doom or Build to do it. ;)

Don't get me wrong about the toilet humour etc, it's funny enough first time through, I guess, but I don't think it has much longevity. The same not-so-funny jokes repeated every time you play gets a bit old IMO.

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Enjay said:

SW is a pretty cool game though. Most of the build games seemed to have a similar obsession with fast-talking, wise-cracking protagonists, (very) soft porn and toilet humour that I could have lived with out


I can only think of Duke and Lo Wang.

Blood was a bit more sinister, dark humor. I don't recall any toilet humor there.
Tekwar, I don't recall humor at all. Except for William Shatner being in it of course. :p
Witch haven. I only played a bit before I got tired of it... Though I never noticed any talking there.
The rest of the build games I completely forgot about.

Oh right, there was that Hillbilly madness game.. or whatever it was called.
Either way, Blood was better than all the other Build engine games put together, and then they made a sequel that wasn't any fun at all.

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Enjay said:

Most of the build games seemed to have a similar obsession with fast-talking, wise-cracking protagonists, (very) soft porn and toilet humour that I could have lived with out, and SW was no exception.



"Do you wanna wash Wang or do you wanna watch Wang wash Wang?"


I'll never forget that one... :D

kristus said:

Oh right, there was that Hillbilly madness game.. or whatever it was called.



Redneck Rampage. Sure, the game was retarded as hell but the level design still outclasses nearly everything I've seen since then.

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Hmmm, perhaps you're right about the humour. I guess that the Build games just left me with that kind of feeling even if, perhaps, the feeling was out of proportion with the actual situation. Or maybe it's because, for a while, there seemed to be so many different combinations of Duke games on the shelves that it seemed like there was more of that kind of humour than there actually was... Duke, Duke Atomic, DC, Caribbean, Nuclear Winter. Then with Lo Wang essentially being an oriental version of Duke...

You are right about Blood too - the best by far.

I'll stick with what I said about the graphic style though. Although with some of the games, sprites etc were done in quite a different style, other graphics such as textures and fonts could be very similar and, browsing through the ART files, you can usually find one or two graphics that are the same as the ones in other games, or at least share a common base. The feel of the engine too. Both of which, of course, are just matters of taste.

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Graf Zahl said:

Redneck Rampage. Sure, the game was retarded as hell but the level design still outclasses nearly everything I've seen since then.


I only played the demo briefly, I think I blew up a gas station if I'm not mistaken.

Enjay said:

I'll stick with what I said about the graphic style though. Although with some of the games, sprites etc were done in quite a different style, other graphics such as textures and fonts could be very similar and, browsing through the ART files, you can usually find one or two graphics that are the same as the ones in other games, or at least share a common base. The feel of the engine too. Both of which, of course, are just matters of taste.


Perhaps. Both he Build and Doom engines are quite easy to spot since they both have quite a bit of personality. (Though IMO Doom's engine got better feel)

Strife seem to have used quite a few Doom sprites as base. Specially the death of peasants and the Doomguy, and the dagger weapon is obviously based off of the Doom fist. The visual style of both games are quite different still though.

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kristus said:

I only played the demo briefly, I think I blew up a gas station if I'm not mistaken.



Yes, that's the one.

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The Witchaven sound test noise was hilarious

Yeah Build games always have had this strive for 'personality', gives them a humorous charm.

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You're all forgetting Exhumed/Powerslave. Which had no personality at all if I recall. As for best build game, obviously Blood. I dunno how that game can be so under appreciated. As for SW, meh. It's not a particularly fantastic game, but its fun once or twice.

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I have to say that I really enjoyed SW for everything it was (at least in the demo). It brought me back to the Duke Nukem era in a whole new style that I appreciated. As for that, I probably enjoyed Blood a little bit more for the sense of humor it portayed (humor I understood at that age).

On a seperate note, I am curious about Chasm II and how it seems to be a close gap between Doom and Quake

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There is no Chasm II.

John Smith said:

Which had no personality at all if I recall.

"Sonofabitch!"

There's also some gratituous breastage later on, more than any build game even the ones with the most womanizer of heroes.

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I've never played any of the build games, but this has inspired me to slip Blood inbetween the game I just finished playing and what I'm playing next.

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Enjay said:

With modern ports, that interactivity difference is significantly reduced and there isn't really much that Build can do that certain Doom ports can't do, or do an alternative of, but yeah, I get your point. Mind you, if I wanted to recreate reality in a game, I don't think I would be using Doom or Build to do it. ;)

Don't get me wrong about the toilet humour etc, it's funny enough first time through, I guess, but I don't think it has much longevity. The same not-so-funny jokes repeated every time you play gets a bit old IMO.


I agree thta with modern ports even doom can look realistic, but speaking only about original engine, build was much more realistic than doom.
Even compared to Quake, the build engine can represent reality much better.

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Lorenzo said:

Even compared to Quake, the build engine can represent reality much better.

Hmmm, I'm less convinced by that, but certainly, in their vanilla forms, Build was significantly more advanced than Doom and more able to represent "reality".

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Graf Zahl said:

Redneck Rampage. Sure, the game was retarded as hell but the level design still outclasses nearly everything I've seen since then.

The final map of the first episode (Smelting Plant IIRC), The Ruins, Uranium Mines, Grimley's Mortuary, The Nut House, the mansion map at the end of the second episode, all epic examples of what Build was capable of.

Then again Blood had some equally awesome maps as well.

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Enjay said:

Hmmm, I'm less convinced by that, but certainly, in their vanilla forms, Build was significantly more advanced than Doom and more able to represent "reality".


Quake was in that transition age of 3D shooters between sprites and models. The models weren't yet advanced enough to look as good as the sprites did. Duke Nukem 3D looked more convincing because it was more detailed, more contrasted, higher-res than Quake's brown blocks.

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True, the models were awful and the palette was brown, brown, brown with an additional hint of brown. However, I thought the comment was relating to how well a modder could use the engine for representing reality. The fact that true 3D structures could exist in Quake is a big point in its favour for that.

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