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AveryMaurice

DarkDoom

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Mancubus II said:

Edit: Upon further re-reading some of this and the latest post from the author it appears this isn't even based on doom anyway. It seems to me this is only using the RESOURCES (textures, sprites etc) in some other engine. If you are not ending up with maps for doom you are not making doom maps. You cannot tout this as being easier doom map making when it's not doom based.


It plays almost EXACTLY like Doom, the only difrence is the filetype. And the editor is similar to DoomBuilder.

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avery1555 said:

Its such a good one, aint it! Hahaha!

Do you get your kicks from criticizing projects that you couldnt even make yourself?

I'm getting a kick or two from it, if you catch my drift.

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avery1555 said:

And the editor is similar to DoomBuilder.


...I don't think so.
EDIT: Also

avery1555 said:

Do you get your kicks from criticizing projects that you couldnt even make yourself?

Do you know who Graf Zahl is

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I still am not sure how this will be much different from existing editing procedures.

But if you are enjoying the creative process of doing this, then why not. It's not a bad thing, and if/when this gets done, I'm sure there will be people out there who are more suited to mapping like this and will use it. It will probably take a lot of time to integrate with existing resources, but what the hell.

I mean I think DoomBuilder is great, but there are good mappers who prefer other mapping editors.

So another way of mapping won't hurt.

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Kyka said:

I still am not sure how this will be much different from existing editing procedures.

But if you are enjoying the creative process of doing this, then why not. It's not a bad thing, and if/when this gets done, I'm sure there will be people out there who are more suited to mapping like this and will use it. It will probably take a lot of time to integrate with existing resources, but what the hell.

I mean I think DoomBuilder is great, but there are good mappers who prefer other mapping editors.

So another way of mapping won't hurt.


Thanks for the comment, I appreciate everyone for there comments and advice, just please, no more flames. I know I got a bit mad and hit some sensitive spots, and I'm sorry for that.

But thanks again!

PS. Sorry about that comment about the "you couldnt make it yourself thing" as well.

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Graf Zahl said:

The Doom level format is an integral part of how the engine works. If you do something different it won't be Doom,

Oh the irony, when so many maps for (G)ZDoom are made with "Doom in Hexen format". That's not Doom. Neither is UDMF. Every new feature of a source port makes it Not Doom. There's not much around these days which is not "Not Doom" :-)

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With 'map format' I don't mean the binary representation on disk but how the engine uses that data. Nothing about this changes for Hexen maps and UDMF.

Both still use things, vertices, linedefs, sidedefs and sectors in precisely the same way and for the engine there is no perceivable difference.

If we want to talk 'different format' we need at least talk Build because that works differently on the engine level.


Regarding this project I see it going the same way any other project that is basically feedback-proof. Death by non-interest.

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avery1555 said:

Ok, designing a WAD without errors and glitches isnt that easy for a beginner, thats for sure.

Anyways, you basically drag and drop walls, enemies and pickups in and then save in .DDM for later use or distribution. You can of course, play the maps in the engine. Its 10X easier then editing a WAD and is meant for if your just fooling around, etc.

I have a suggestion. Instead of re-inventing the wheel - which is basically what you're doing by developing a new engine and file format - why don't you develop a WAD editor with (for want of a better description) "training wheels" for beginners. Include a bunch of wizards and context-sensitive help that the mapper can selectively disable as they (hopefully) learn how to fix their mistakes or avoid making them. DarkDoom is an interesting idea but if the skills that are learnt mapping for it can't be readily transferred to Doom mapping - people aren't going to make the transition.

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avery1555 said:

Its a project to make people that dont make WADs able to still make Doom maps and mods, I think I said that above. But obviously, this does not appeal to you.

Also, for example, there was no need for Score Doom, but it was made for enjoyment, same here.


It's a project to make people that don't make wads able to still make Doom maps and mods.

What?

The wad format is the way doom works, it really isn't that complicated. It's not that hard to break open XWE and start editing the wad. The wad system is actually neat in that you can patch them over the original wad in memory without actually modifying the one on the hard drive, whereas if I read your posts correctly, you are making a system where all the data is just situated in folders.

No offense or anything, but unless this is (As somebody else stated) a school project or just you trying to hone your programming skills, this is completely pointless. Score doom on the other hand, added scores to doom. That's it. You're idea completely bastardizes the way doom is setup, making it pointlessly complicated (using GIF files for sprite animation? seriously?).

Do whatever you want, just don't be surprised when next to nobody has any interest in your project.

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Mike.Reiner said:

It's a project to make people that don't make wads able to still make Doom maps and mods.

What?

The wad format is the way doom works, it really isn't that complicated. It's not that hard to break open XWE and start editing the wad. The wad system is actually neat in that you can patch them over the original wad in memory without actually modifying the one on the hard drive, whereas if I read your posts correctly, you are making a system where all the data is just situated in folders.

No offense or anything, but unless this is (As somebody else stated) a school project or just you trying to hone your programming skills, this is completely pointless. Score doom on the other hand, added scores to doom. That's it. You're idea completely bastardizes the way doom is setup, making it pointlessly complicated (using GIF files for sprite animation? seriously?).

Do whatever you want, just don't be surprised when next to nobody has any interest in your project.


I never expected anyone on this forum would be intrested.

Really, this is for people who dont often play Doom and just want to fool around. And its not complicate if you know how an image file works.

And really, seriously, just because it doesnt use a particular file format doesnt mean its pointless.

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GreyGhost said:

I have a suggestion. Instead of re-inventing the wheel - which is basically what you're doing by developing a new engine and file format - why don't you develop a WAD editor with (for want of a better description) "training wheels" for beginners. Include a bunch of wizards and context-sensitive help that the mapper can selectively disable as they (hopefully) learn how to fix their mistakes or avoid making them. DarkDoom is an interesting idea but if the skills that are learnt mapping for it can't be readily transferred to Doom mapping - people aren't going to make the transition.


I could try once this project is completed.

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Mike.Reiner said:

You're idea completely bastardizes the way doom is setup, making it pointlessly complicated (using GIF files for sprite animation? seriously?).



Since when was animated gifs complicated?

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Graf Zahl said:

For the task at hand, yes, they are needlessly complicated.


How is it different from any other time you would use an AniGif? Now your throwing stones blindly.

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Animated GIF's are fine when used as animations on web pages. There's a reason that no game engine has ever used an animated graphics format for game resources. I can only guess but the reason might be that this is not something graphics artists like to work with.

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Say what you want about the usefulness of this project, but it is helping one person get some coding practice. I say leave him to it, so that he can discover the complete disinterest in his completed engine for himself.

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Creaphis said:

I say leave him to it, so that he can discover the complete disinterest in his completed engine for himself.


Of course weather or not he completes it has nothing to do with us. If it were my project I'd just go for a totally new game and not use the Doom resources for something unrelated to Doom.

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Creaphis said:

Say what you want about the usefulness of this project, but it is helping one person get some coding practice. I say leave him to it, so that he can discover the complete disinterest in his completed engine for himself.



You can talk right to me or are you trying to sound like your a smart ass.

Its obviously related to Doom, if you read the above posts.

And if you have no intrest, dont act like a complete tool on this thread. Some people are actually being helpful.

Plus I have some people who e-mailed me with some support as well, as it appears I have some people intrested in this project.

One forum (and not all the people) dont like it, so what? Theres a bigger world outside Doomworld, and Doomworld isnt full of people that would be intrested.

Now im just talking on, I could argue for hours but I dont see the point. The post is going to Hell as it is anyways.

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avery1555 said:

You can talk right to me or are you trying to sound like your a smart ass.

Its obviously related to Doom, if you read the above posts.

And if you have no intrest, dont act like a complete tool on this thread. Some people are actually being helpful.

Plus I have some people who e-mailed me with some support as well, as it appears I have some people intrested in this project.

One forum (and not all the people) dont like it, so what? Theres a bigger world outside Doomworld, and Doomworld isnt full of people that would be intrested.

Now im just talking on, I could argue for hours but I dont see the point. The post is going to Hell as it is anyways.


Way to shit on the one guy who actually roots for you in this thread.

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Yeah seriously. I wrote that post to dissuade others from attacking your idea. I'm saying "Go ahead, Avery." You could stop assuming that everyone wants to pick a fight with you.

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Creaphis said:

Say what you want about the usefulness of this project, but it is helping one person get some coding practice. I say leave him to it, so that he can discover the complete disinterest in his completed engine for himself.


Oh... sorry....

I really though you were just trying to shoot my idea down. Lmao, so sorry!

Anyways, I scrapped the idea, sorry guys...

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Well, it's easy to see in my post that I didn't expect DarkDoom to find much of a userbase, but I still don't want to shoot down your efforts. If people tell you that it won't be useful, but you want to write an engine, then write an engine. It doesn't hurt anybody.

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I'd say anything is fine, as long you're enjoying doing it. If you want to make DarkDoom as it is, go ahead... When I'm making levels or messing around with sourceport's editing features, I'm doing it because I find it entertaining, not because I want necessarily people to like them if ever released.

To be able toss around ideas for a mod and trying to make them happening in a game is like solving riddles or puzzles, which I enjoy a lot. Whether they get completed or not isn't really bothering me, as long as I enjoy the process of making them. If I manage get some project done, I think it once more over: Is it something that other people would be interested of, or find enjoyable to play?

Mostly not, seeing that I haven't released anything playable yet even though I have been making wads and experimenting stuff for years and lurking here quite long time before registering.

If it were me, I would evolve DarkDoom into something that involves editing levels within the gameplay. Like Doom Builder 3d-mode, but to be able "play" right away. Wasn't there Cube3d or something similar that already works like that? Well, if it could produce playable levels for doom, it would be pretty awesome.

Anyway, this is my 2 cents.

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