ASCII? Javascript? WTH?

I've been trying things out to promote my cartoon, I tried out RPG Maker VX and I did very well on the graphics but I got lost immediately in ASCII language in the game so I put that on hold.

I tried out Micromedia Fusion 2 and, again, I make good graphics but got lost in the coding.

Next is the big one. I'm pretty good at making flash cartoons without the use of Javascript but one of these I'll HAVE to learn it if I want to make unique flashes.

Ugh, how come I can be in the zone when it comes to creation, but I get screwed over when I have to learn coding gibberish. I'm sure all lot of you guys know what to do in a pinch.

Hmm.

herooftime1000 said:

coding gibberish.

I've found your problem.

esselfortium said:

Hmm.

I've found your problem.

Really, though, the fact that you're referring to programming as "gibberish" doesn't really tell me that you're very receptive to the idea of writing code.

esselfortium said:

Really, though, the fact that you're referring to programming as "gibberish" doesn't really tell me that you're very receptive to the idea of writing code.

I just find it a bit confusing, that's all. I've always had trouble understanding programming language.

herooftime1000 said:

Next is the big one. I'm pretty good at making flash cartoons without the use of Javascript but one of these I'll HAVE to learn it if I want to make unique flashes.

Perhaps you intended ActionScript, as Flash has nothing to do with JavaScript. ActionScript source files have the extension ACS, which is probably why you mixed them up with the ASCII character set.

In an attempt to avoid this getting helled, I'll try answering based on my own experience with Flash: you can produce interesting animations without coding, as long as you're willing to place and manipulate everything on the scene by hand (using only motion and animation tweens).

If you want e.g. to make something fly in circular orbits, sure, you can just use guides and tweens, but it's too approximative, and coding the movement in ActionScript would result in smoother and more precise movement, probably with much less effort, too. Same thing if you though of using dynamic objects, too many objects etc.

There's a limit at which you must ask yourself if you prefer doing it the hard way or the easy way, but that's entirely up to you. I wouldn't think manually moving and simulate interaction between e.g. 100 stage objects, I'd rather code the thing.

Again, depends on what you're trying to do. If you only do heavily non-repetitive, hand drawn animation and pasting sound clips directly on the stage is enough for you (and all of this without even a preloader...) then probably you can do without ActionScript.

Oops! I guess I got the two mixed up. Well, I'll see if I can at least comprehend on what I can do. Personally, you can send this thread to hell. I just wanted to share my thoughts.

Maes said:

Perhaps you intended ActionScript, as Flash has nothing to do with JavaScript. ActionScript source files have the extension ACS, which is probably why you mixed them up with the ASCII character set.

ActionScript 2 and Java are extremely similar. This is what I love about ActionScript 2 and not so much 3. As long as I know the proper protocols I can jump from one language to the other pretty easily.

I don't know anything about that junk. I've learned a simple scripting language in another game, and I took a few stabs at DECORATE, mostly just copies and pastes of other people's stuff and tweeking it to my likings.

If something's too hard for you, then why don't you consider doing something else? Just draw comic book sketches or something and look for a producer who might know how to animate it for you.

Technician said:

ActionScript 2 and Java are extremely similar.

There are more similarities with JavaScript, also because both languages (not Java, though) are derived from ECMAScript. Some features like the C-like syntax, dynamic typing, and mixed functional/OO programming are defined there. Still, they are not interchangeable, except maybe for trivial/purely mathematical code.

JohnnyRancid said:

I don't know anything about that junk. I've learned a simple scripting language in another game, and I took a few stabs at DECORATE, mostly just copies and pastes of other people's stuff and tweeking it to my likings.

If something's too hard for you, then why don't you consider doing something else? Just draw comic book sketches or something and look for a producer who might know how to animate it for you.

Thanks for the thought, but I highly doubt anyone is going to work with a story so far-fetched and strange. So, I gotta do it myself.

I've found the best way for me to animate in Flash is the frame by frame method. It's very tedious, but it works when...

a) I've drawn a character in all angles in Adobe Illustrator
b) That character's limbs are separate, moveable objects
c) I'm willing to draw several states for limbs, hands, face, mouths, etc...

From that point, I'd animate separate characters in Flash and export the animations into AI sequences and drop them into AfterEffects on backgrounds.

That's an exceedingly tedious way to go about it, but I haven't had to animate anything since school. There's a sweet program out there though called Moho by Lost Marble. It's supposed to be a great animation suite, made for folks who are on the more artistic side of the spectrum.

Maes said:

Perhaps you intended ActionScript, as Flash has nothing to do with JavaScript.

What, you didn't read the first sentence in that article?

ActionScript is a scripting language based on ECMAScript.

(ECMAScript being the Javascript standard)

Technician said:

ActionScript 2 and Java are extremely similar.

Please don't confuse Java and Javascript; they are completely different languages and have very little in common.

I later pointed out their common ECMAScript derivation, but still, you can't exactly swap them around with impunity, unless you're only exchanging really trivial code with no references to DOM or Flash objects.

In that respect, they are as "similar" as English and Afrikaans are: there are a handful of phrases that are written the same and have the same meaning in both languages, but in the general case...good luck.

herooftime1000 said:

Thanks for the thought, but I highly doubt anyone is going to work with a story so far-fetched and strange. So, I gotta do it myself.

Well then what value are you trying to receive from making it?

JohnnyRancid said:

Well then what value are you trying to receive from making it?

Do you really think that anyone can just waltz onto the internet and ask, "Hey, does anybody want to animate for me?" and get talented volunteers? People who are skilled enough to produce good work like to bring their own ideas to life instead of somebody else's, unless they're getting paid. If you have a good reputation for product quality and a proven ability to lead, and if you give your artists their artistic freedom, then you can get some free labour. This should be obvious enough from how projects work in the Doom community. I assume that Herooftime has a fairly rigid idea of what he wants to make, and I also assume that he is not yet famous in any animation communities, making his prospects for free help look grim. But, just because it's unlikely that people will animate Herooftime's script doesn't mean that his ideas lack value.

A person doesn't "learn" JavaScript or C++ or any programming language. A person learns programming. A person then goes out and uses a language just as a painter uses a paintbrush. Maybe the painter has to get used to certain style of paintbrush and learn how it's best used, but if he isn't a painter to begin with, the best paintbrush in the world is useless to him.

I don't know whether this was really relevant, as I'm not interested in reading the thread, but I think other people should hear it anyway.

That was actually very insightful Andrew.

AndrewB said:

A person doesn't "learn" JavaScript or C++ or any programming language. A person learns programming. A person then goes out and uses a language just as a painter uses a paintbrush. Maybe the painter has to get used to certain style of paintbrush and learn how it's best used, but if he isn't a painter to begin with, the best paintbrush in the world is useless to him.

That's true to a limited extent. With C++ and Javascript, the model of programming is similar enough that it's fairly easy to pick up one if you know the other. However, it's worth pointing out that different programming languages exist with wildly different programming models. Programming in Javascript and programming in assembly is completely different, for example. Perhaps the most extreme example is functional programming; you might be the best C++ programmer on the planet, but programming in a functional language like Lisp or Haskell requires a completely different way of thinking.

There's also the notable cases of those unlucky enough to begin programming with a language such as BASIC, FORTRAN or COBOL and who never moved on: these languages in particular had little "universal programming teaching value", and taught a programmer very few skills, not to mention instilling bad habits which was hard to get rid of afterwards.

Absolute nonsense.

Fortran is still the standard for scientific computing. Modern incarnations of it are not drastically different from C. BASIC shares most concepts with C-style languages (minus the brackets). These languages have all evolved from their beginnings and have plenty of "universal programming teaching value."

david_a said:

BASIC shares most concepts with C-style languages (minus the brackets). These languages have all evolved from their beginnings and have plenty of "universal programming teaching value."

That's true of modern versions (eg. VB.NET); however, I think Maes was referring to people like those who learned programming with home computers in the 80s. Back then it was all one big mess of GOTO statements.

Yeah, so? The first programming I did was using GW-Basic in high school. It's not the fault of the language that people did not evolve their skills.

fraggle said:

That's true of modern versions (eg. VB.NET); however, I think Maes was referring to people like those who learned programming with home computers in the 80s. Back then it was all one big mess of GOTO statements.

Bingo. It's also shit-easy to find bile, venom and criticism laden academic papers from those years lashing out vs BASIC, FORTRAN and COBOL.

OK, so modern Fortran is not as bad as FORTRAN...too bad that most existing code is still written in FORTRAN IV or FORTRAN 77, and most of those who still actively use the language learned it back then, and with a mindset of it being the "End All, Be All" of programming languages.

Creaphis said:

Do you really think that anyone can just waltz onto the internet and ask, "Hey, does anybody want to animate for me?" and get talented volunteers? People who are skilled enough to produce good work like to bring their own ideas to life instead of somebody else's, unless they're getting paid. If you have a good reputation for product quality and a proven ability to lead, and if you give your artists their artistic freedom, then you can get some free labour. This should be obvious enough from how projects work in the Doom community. I assume that Herooftime has a fairly rigid idea of what he wants to make, and I also assume that he is not yet famous in any animation communities, making his prospects for free help look grim. But, just because it's unlikely that people will animate Herooftime's script doesn't mean that his ideas lack value.

Thank you, Creaphis. Really though, many people don't understand or like a plot about children of Nintendo characters forming a help service, as it falls immediately under the state of fanfiction or "fanboyism." People tend to look down on those kind of stories, but I digress.

herooftime1000 said:

I've been trying things out to promote my cartoon, I tried out RPG Maker VX and I did very well on the graphics but I got lost immediately in ASCII language in the game so I put that on hold.

I tried out Micromedia Fusion 2 and, again, I make good graphics but got lost in the coding.

Next is the big one. I'm pretty good at making flash cartoons without the use of Javascript but one of these I'll HAVE to learn it if I want to make unique flashes.

Ugh, how come I can be in the zone when it comes to creation, but I get screwed over when I have to learn coding gibberish. I'm sure all lot of you guys know what to do in a pinch.

I know what this is like. I abandinded DooM III level editing after realizing you need to know programming languages to an extent.
I had some good ideas for Flash games as well, but that code thing gets in the way.

Sucks to be programming-impared. :)

fraggle said:

I think Maes was referring to people like those who learned programming with home computers in the 80s. Back then it was all one big mess of GOTO statements.

Hey! :P

Use3D said:

Hey! :P

You're lucky you weren't taught LOGO...

fraggle said:

I think Maes was referring to people like those who learned programming with home computers in the 80s. Back then it was all one big mess of GOTO statements.

My programs tended to be full of DATA statements.

GreyGhost said:

My programs tended to be full of DATA statements.

As long as they also had PEEK and POKE, these were alright.