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40oz

Secret Levels

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What would typically make a good secret level in a megawad? Anything wolfenstein related is severely overdone. Do you expect to see a level that's generally the same as the rest of the levels in the megawad, or do you expect some sort of a joke map of some sort? What do you expect to see if you find the secret in a megawad that takes you to the secret level?

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I suppose I just expect a good level that's makes the effort searching for the secret exit in MAP15 worth my trouble.

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having some sort of easter egg, something that makes you laugh or go 'hmmm' or atleast something a bit deffierent or else there isn't really a point to making the level secret and it may as well just be a normal level. It has too seem worth your while, not just game play wise but on how interesting its special feature is. The secret levels are probably the most difficult to make effectively, other than map30 and map01.

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It really depends on the wad, I suppose. Some mapsets might fit better than others with gimmicky secret levels. One that stands out in my mind, though, is the secret map in Espi's Back to Basics e2 replacement, a surreal gothic-themed void map. (Which, technically, shouldn't even be possible in vanilla, but it magically works around the double-sky inability!)

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I like to see maps of a more experimental quality in those spots. The player should be rewarded for leaving the beaten path with something just a little bit weirder.

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Lich said:

I suppose I just expect a good level that's makes the effort searching for the secret exit in MAP15 worth my trouble.


It doesn't have to be Map15. (Look at Ultimate DOOM (E1M3, E2M5, E3M6, E4M2), various ZDoom Megawads etc.)

I think some good secret ideas might include a level with a new custommade weapon (now this is ZDoom or Skulltag) such as DVII's Sauron's Gauntlets. Possibly a level "different" (such as a level based on reality - such as a "house" level) from the others works.
A nice secret boss level doesn't sound too bad of an idea either.


Some good secret levels:

Map31: Killing Colours (Alien Vendetta).
Map32: Grosse (You'd better know this one) - think "The End"
Maps33+: Various (Mock 2: Speed of Stupid)
Map33: Chocolate (Plutonia 2- still need to play it)

plus a few others.

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Yeah I like seeing really weird, creative + unique secret levels that stand out from the rest of the maps. AV's Killer Colours is one of my favorite secret levels.

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Also I think the player should be rewarded for finding the secret levels. You shouldn't leave map 15 with full ammo, 200 health and armor, fight your way through the secret level/s, and then return to the start of level 16 with 7 shells, 50 bullets, all your plasma used up, 7 health and no armor.

You should leave a secret level/s better than you went in.

Well I think so anyway.

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Kyka said:

Also I think the player should be rewarded for finding the secret levels. You shouldn't leave map 15 with full ammo, 200 health and armor, fight your way through the secret level/s, and then return to the start of level 16 with 7 shells, 50 bullets, all your plasma used up, 7 health and no armor.

You should leave a secret level/s better than you went in.

Well I think so anyway.


Can't get much better than full ammo (w/backpack), all guns, and a megasphere at your arsenal. Just think of a secret level as "bonus" levels rather than a reward. What if you went through a decently made Map19 with full ammo, health, and all guns and you end up at Map20 with a mere 1 health and 1 shotgun shell (Pirates of the Carribean).

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In all the games I've ever played, my favorite secret levels follow this sort of pattern:

-Have features not seen in any other levels (new graphics, new enemies)
-Have some sort of unusual overarching design/architectural feature or theme
-Are harder than most of the other levels in the game (but of course still playable)
-Just before the exit, give the player lots of health, ammo, other goodies
-Perhaps end with easter egg/joke of some kind

Some of my favorite secret levels in any game are for the Commander Keen series. Keen 4's secret level is possibly the hardest level in the game, and ends in a rather hilarious fashion with lots of points. In Keen 5, the level is on a different planet, has it's own new character, a difficult towerlike design, lots of points at the end, and a way to change the ending of the game if you're clever. In Keen 6, the secret level is a space station, is (once again) difficult, ends (once again) with lots of points, and has a hidden area which decodes the game's alphabet. They are all great examples of clever secret level design.

As far as Doom goes, I think I like MAP31 of TNT the best among the secret levels. All it needed was its own new enemy. All the Wolfenstein levels are cool but suffer from the fact that they're, well, Wolfenstein levels. They're just not that exciting to play.

Unfortunately, no MAP32 really works for me that much, although Go 2 It is at least an excellent map.

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A good secret map is any map that extremely deviates from normal gameplay and design. To be honest, my favorite secret map was from "Blake Stone - Aliens of Gold". It consisted entirely of secret doors and abnormal texture placing. "Go 2 It" is an OK example also. An abnormal number of well placed monsters also hightens the experience. Perhaps maybe even a new monster?

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MAP31 and MAP32 from Rebirth make me happy. They're not technically secret, though, because there aren't any normal exits in MAP15 or MAP31.

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Wolfenstein can shed a bit of light on the subject:

1. Much harder difficulty, but rewarding items or weapons. Bonus points if it's a weapon not available until much later in the game (not a Wolfenstein example).
2. Level architecture and layout that is largely different from the other levels, yet consistent enough if the level is to be considered "serious".
3. Perhaps some novelty gameplay or experience, whether it is a joke, unique puzzles, or seemingly impossible challenges.

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EarthQuake said:

Wolfenstein can shed a bit of light on the subject:

1. Much harder difficulty, but rewarding items or weapons. Bonus points if it's a weapon not available until much later in the game (not a Wolfenstein example).
2. Level architecture and layout that is largely different from the other levels, yet consistent enough if the level is to be considered "serious".
3. Perhaps some novelty gameplay or experience, whether it is a joke, unique puzzles, or seemingly impossible challenges.


It was either e4 or e5 of Wolfenstein that had a bitch of a secret level where you were on a large grid and had to follow a certain path in order to avoid alerting every guard on the level. Alerting every guard was not a good option since it was damn near impossible to make it by doing so.

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I prefer secret maps not to be power maps, in which you're given every weapon possible and pitted to fight dozens of cyberdemons and archviles (unless the megawad fits, like Plutonia or AV). I prefer that the next-to-last (or last) levels be the ones very hard, not random hidden maps in the middle.

Dull secret levels suck.

EDIT: Secret levels with near-unique rewards can exist; see KDiZD. And I'd really do the same if I made an Episode 3... I'd include the one existing BFG only in E3M9, it's too powerful... then after finding it let the player wade his/her way through E3M7 with BFG-power... then bummer: he/she'll remain without any cells in E3M8, so finding the BFG wasn't as worthy as hoped :)

Fiend said:

Alerting every guard was not a good option since it was damn near impossible to make it by doing so.

I survived it, but only after I got a decent computer. And know what? There was nothing else to be found there! Bad level IMO.

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exp(x) said:

MAP31 and MAP32 from Rebirth make me happy. They're not technically secret, though, because there aren't any normal exits in MAP15 or MAP31.


MAP15 certainly has a regular exit.

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Fiend said:

It was either e4 or e5 of Wolfenstein that had a bitch of a secret level where you were on a large grid and had to follow a certain path in order to avoid alerting every guard on the level. Alerting every guard was not a good option since it was damn near impossible to make it by doing so.

It was E4L10, and yes, from a pistol start you pretty much had to put your head down and bail (the only health was a 1up inside the elevator).  In an episode run, I have taken my chaingun and just stood inside the secret near the beginning and waited for all ~75 guys to walk in the door.  However, on period hardware that wouldn't have worked either, because all the corpse sprites slow the frame rate down ridiculously.

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I remember map 32 from mars war was both fun and amusing. It had a "doom zoo" in it with each monster type in separate pens. Plus, the hall was "L" shaped so the first part included the original doom 1 monsters and the second part of the hall had the monsters that were new in doom 2.

Then of course, all the pens are eventually opened and naturally all hell breaks loose!

Another highlight was Fragport's map 32, "The Crystal Maze", which needs to be seen to believe how incredible it was!

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Pure Hellspawn said:

...and you end up at Map20 with a mere 1 health and 1 shotgun shell (Pirates of the Carribean).

That in ROTT would give you a 'skin of your teeth' award. :D

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