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40oz

Heretic Monster Annoyances

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In light of the over done "most annoying doom monsters" that always manages to go off topic, which monsters do you think are most annoying in Heretic?

I can never really determine how close to me those axes that the death knights throw. And ophidians hardly have any warning of their attack at all, it would be nice if they had some kinda warcry like a mancubus or something.

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Monster toughness in Heretic is a lot more dependant on map design than on having any "tricky" abilities (like the Arch-vile or Pain Elemental). The only one that I think could really be flagged as 'annoying' gameplay-wise would be the Iron Lich with his tornadoes.

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The Iron Lich tornado works in decently large areas, but what possessed the designers to place them in the most awkward of tight spaces?

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I guess I'll elaborate on what's already been said. I think that the iron liches' tornadoes are a cool attack, but the problem is that there's no way you can skillfully deflect them aside from hiding around a corner and waiting for them to die. It would be better if they were shootable, or instantly dissipated when hitting a wall, or something like that. As for ophidians, I don't mind the fact that there's very little warning before they shoot - it keeps you on your toes. But, their attack is lame and spammy, designed to wear you down with 2s and 3s of damage. They would be more interesting to fight if they launched a single, powerful attack, which you would either dodge completely (if you're skilled) or get hit hard by (if you slip up). A powerful attack would match their high damage tolerance and slow speed quite nicely.

I should note that I've found ophidians significantly less annoying since I realized that they drop more pheonix rod ammo than it takes to kill them.

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the tornadoes can't travel over even the smallest height difference so it's really easy to escape them.

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Do note that the Iron Lich tornadoes cannot track you if you are under the influence of the Shadowsphere. If you touch one deliberately, it'll gladly toss you around, but other than that you are safe.

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Flying alcolyte guys that shoot those 3 purple rings. Impossible to dodge at close range, you pretty much take it in the face. Every time.

Werebeast fireballs don't glow like other fireballs and are hard as hell to see in the dark.

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Flying alcolyte guys that shoot those 3 purple rings. Impossible to dodge at close range, you pretty much take it in the face. Every time.

Yeah, and when you attack them they get pushed back farther and farther, making it annoying to actually pin one down and kill him.

The weapons in Heretic actually feel a little weak. It takes so much firepower to take down most of the monsters. Even with the tome of power, the monsters just don't go down easily. The phoenix rod is the exception, punishing with huge damage and splash radius. The firemace just seems flatly ineffective though... and it goes right through specter opponents :\

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I just use the crossbow, its the only weapon i like and unless im in the shit the others dont get used much.

As for enemys, none really bother me compared to some of doom2s monsters.

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Liberation said:

I just use the crossbow, its the only weapon i like and unless im in the shit the others dont get used much.

Yeah, crossbow does generally feel like the best weapon (although gauntlets + tome are pretty good too), but the crossbow doesn't work so well against ghost monsters (only the center bolt can hit.) So using it against them is a waste of the full ammo potential.

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Yeah, I would prefer the ophidians shoot the Phoenix Rod shot. Then it would at least make sense for it to drop that orb. As for the tornadoes, they may be annoying, but they can be useful as well. For instance, on E3M1, you can use it to get to the exit real quick, although many times I just go down there to pick up that hellstaff and come back once everything is dead.

Oh, and I can't think of any monster that really annoys me. It really depends on the situation. If I have enough firepower, then it's easy, but in maps like E4M1 and E5M1 where you start with nothing, even the gargoyles are a real pain.

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Quasar said:

Do note that the Iron Lich tornadoes cannot track you if you are under the influence of the Shadowsphere. If you touch one deliberately, it'll gladly toss you around, but other than that you are safe.


That's actually really handy, I didn't know that. I don't really like partial invisibility in doom so I tend to leave shadowspheres sitting in my inventory until the end of the episode.

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Stilgar said:

Yeah, crossbow does generally feel like the best weapon (although gauntlets + tome are pretty good too), but the crossbow doesn't work so well against ghost monsters (only the center bolt can hit.) So using it against them is a waste of the full ammo potential.


it's the doom shotgun, medieval styled. given how popular the shotgun is in doom (on easier maps anyway) it's not surprising.

Ichor said:

Oh, and I can't think of any monster that really annoys me. It really depends on the situation. If I have enough firepower, then it's easy, but in maps like E4M1 and E5M1 where you start with nothing, even the gargoyles are a real pain.


did the developers think one has to play through the whole game keeping his weapons? no heart for the demo runners...

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Torr Samaho said:

did the developers think one has to play through the whole game keeping his weapons? no heart for the demo runners...

E4M1 and E5M1 are start maps. You never got any weapons starting on those maps except you're using cheats.

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Ophidians are annoying because of their flame orb ammo which really stops the game from being balanced in some instances. Sometimes I kill a bunch of those snake guys before I even get a Phoenix Rod. When I finally pick one up, I usually find I have about 23 orbs saved up for the most powerful weapon in the game. :O

It feels like there should be another flying monster since the only two are gargoyles and disciples and the player also has access to the Wings of Wrath. I'm flying around and shooting at helpless little monsters stuck on the ground - shouldn't there be some kind of winged monstrosity that is chasing after me? The game could also use a few hitscan monsters, too.

The other Heretic monsters are stylish and functional... It's very tough to create a cast of monsters that are as diverse and versatile as those from Doom II. Heretic doesn't have that kind of variety but it still is an entertaining game.

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