The Jaguar Levels

What do you all think of them? I personally almost like some of them compared to the PC originals. I liked the new look that they gave to the levels, Like Phobos Lab, Spawning Vats and the two new levels Hell Gate (Great for Infighting!) and Hell Keep. While I really don't like what they did to simplify the levels, I like some of the texture choices compared to the PC version (Especially some of the monster corpses on the walls). Even while I like them better than the PC versions, I'm sure I'll get some "they sucked" replies on them.

Edit: I took out the questions on the missing monster corpses and doors In the Playstation version because I figured out my self why they weren't there. They couldn't have too many different textures in one room.
Also for those of you that don't know, The jaguar levels were also in the 32x, 3do, PlayStation, Saturn and GBA ports.

The EP2 and EP3 maps in Jaguar looked much more 'cleaner' to me as they didn't suffer the 'Sandy' syndrome. I wasn't too crazy about the changes done to the EP1 maps but I know it was for obvious reasons (optimizations etc).

I do like some of the exclusive levels though and personally I think the revised Hell Gate map played out a lot better.

Jaguar Doom...wasn't that the same as the 3d0 version? Atari's version is the only one I haven't played yet so I'm not sure.

Map wise it was the same, but the 3do had the infamous framerate issues and awesome remixes of the PC'S music.

I've only played Hell's Gate and Hell's Keep on PSX Doom, but to me they just seem like featureless switch hunts which highlight the limitations of running the engine on an old console, compared to what the game looked like on PC.

Kaiser said:

The EP2 and EP3 maps in Jaguar looked much more 'cleaner' to me as they didn't suffer the 'Sandy' syndrome. I wasn't too crazy about the changes done to the EP1 maps but I know it was for obvious reasons (optimizations etc).

I agree. I didn't really like the exclusive maps, though.

I really liked Hell's Keep. It was a much better start to inferno and in fact it looked like a compound. Plus it was devilishly difficult.

Kaiser said:

The EP2 and EP3 maps in Jaguar looked much more 'cleaner' to me as they didn't suffer the 'Sandy' syndrome. I wasn't too crazy about the changes done to the EP1 maps but I know it was for obvious reasons (optimizations etc).

I do like some of the exclusive levels though and personally I think the revised Hell Gate map played out a lot better.

'Sandy Syndrome' -> examples?

It depends.

The PC versions of these maps are in many cases poorly textured, but the level is always intact.

The Jaguar versions of these maps are always properly textured, but in many cases half of the level is missing.

Who made the Jaguar Doom anyway? Was it id or some other company?

Doom_user said:

It depends.

The PC versions of these maps are in many cases poorly textured, but the level is always intact.

The Jaguar versions of these maps are always properly textured, but in many cases half of the level is missing.

Who made the Jaguar Doom anyway? Was it id or some other company?

Jaguar Doom was handled by ID.

I liked some of them allot, I have not played Jaguar Doom, but i have played PSX and GBA Doom. What i liked the most about the levels from PSX Doom (i don't know if this is also the case with Jaguar Doom but anyways...) is that some of the boring levels had been removed and some of the boring areas in some of the levels had also been removed. The crate maze in E2M2 that use to drive me nuts is gone for example.

hardcore_gamer said:

What i liked the most about the levels from PSX Doom (i don't know if this is also the case with Jaguar Doom but anyways...)

The first 24 maps of PSX Doom are all but identical to the JagDoom mapset. (There are some trivial edits here and there, mostly around key-locked doors to make them stand out a little more.)

Ledmeister said:

The first 24 maps of PSX Doom are all but identical to the JagDoom mapset. (There are some trivial edits here and there, mostly around key-locked doors to make them stand out a little more.)

I believe it was the colored lighting that made them stand out more. I thought it was cool at levels like The Military Base how they had the colored light of the key lighting up where it was, sort of fooling one into thinking it was dynamic lighting (it isn't). They also put less textures in a room, so more of the rooms decoration's (like corpses on walls and the lion's heads on some of the doors) are sadly missing.

I found the colored lighting to kinda stick out in many maps, it doesn't look very natural. Most of that is a result of the design though, really. I'm sure maps designed with the colored light in mind it would work more smoothly.

Mattfrie1 said:

I believe it was the colored lighting that made them stand out more.

Yeah, in first-person view there are more differences; I was just talking about general layout, like in Automap view, e.g. the same rooms and halls that are present/missing in the Jaguar mapset are present/missing in the first part of the PlayStation mapset. I shoulda been more specific. :)

Use3D said:

I'm sure maps designed with the colored light in mind it would work more smoothly.

A.K.A. Doom 64. I found the colored light natural to me, because many of the levels I played first on the PlayStation version. It can be a pain in the ass sometimes though when it's too dark, like the maze in Command Control.

Ledmeister said:

Yeah, in first-person view there are more differences; I was just talking about general layout, like in Automap view, e.g. the same rooms and halls that are present/missing in the Jaguar mapset are present/missing in the first part of the PlayStation mapset. I shoulda been more specific. :)

Well I figured that. :) Come to think of it, the only things I found edited in the PlayStation levels was height. Like in Central Processing the area were the switch is to open the door to the final "battleground" used to have stairs in the Jaguar version but is a flat hallway in the PS version. Come to think of it, were there any major edits in the Doom 2 levels (or Final Doom for that matter)?

_bruce_ said:

'Sandy Syndrome' -> examples?

One of the most blatent is the room behind the right hand door at the start of e2m3. It's like he's colorblind and can't tell the difference between the various startan type textures.

Another example is mt. erebus (e3m6). Every color in the rainbow on that map.

Some people actually like this in an odd sort of way. Like me for example. :)

Mattfrie1 said:

Come to think of it, were there any major edits in the Doom 2 levels (or Final Doom for that matter)?

There are almost no notable changes in the general layout of the PlayStation Doom II maps (among those actually included in the game). There are a few minor edits here and there, though.
The PlayStation Final Doom maps have many more changes, overall; but still far fewer big edits than what you get in JagDoom mapset, or its spin-offs.
In all cases, though, very tall rooms in any of those maps tend to be squashed down, compared to the PC originals. *Shrug*

I noticed that the Final Doom maps are moderately different from their PC counterparts, namely a lot of the custom textures in those levels being replaced with Doom 2 ones and some PSX exclusive textures. The TNT levels I found were the ones edited the most, like Nukage Processing and Ballistyx.

Come to think of it, why did they only use Doom 2 textures in these levels? Was it laziness of having to convert all of the Doom 1 textures or maybe just giving the levels a new look?

stphrz said:

One of the most blatent is the room behind the right hand door at the start of e2m3. It's like he's colorblind and can't tell the difference between the various startan type textures.

Another example is mt. erebus (e3m6). Every color in the rainbow on that map.

Some people actually like this in an odd sort of way. Like me for example. :)

Interesting - love his style. This room was one of the most memorable ones for me...

stphrz said:

One of the most blatent is the room behind the right hand door at the start of e2m3. It's like he's colorblind and can't tell the difference between the various startan type textures.

Another example is mt. erebus (e3m6). Every color in the rainbow on that map.

Some people actually like this in an odd sort of way. Like me for example. :)

Mt. Erebus was one of my favorites.

Mattfrie1 said:

Come to think of it, why did they only use Doom 2 textures in these levels? Was it laziness of having to convert all of the Doom 1 textures or maybe just giving the levels a new look?

I'm sure it has more to do with lack of video memory.

I thought the new levels were pretty fun IMO. Although in the PSX, Redemption Denied didn't live up to its name, was a bit too simple for a 'frightening last map'.

The bonus levels in the Xbox Doom, Betrayed and Sewer were much, much more horrible than the aforementioned levels.

Aldaraia said:

The bonus levels in the Xbox Doom, Betrayed and Sewer were much, much more horrible than the aforementioned levels.

I played them recently, and couldn't believe they were actually included in Xbox Doom. The first secret levels I've ever played where I would completely avoid them whenever I play through it.

Well from what I read about the Xbox exclusive levels, It seems like they are Wads that one of the people from Xbox Doom worked on ten years earlier and put them in, as they were never released on the PC before that. I actually downloaded the levels for the PC version, and in my opinion are absolutely awful. The ways to get to them are extremely stupid as well.

The levels Hell Gate and Hell Keep (Jaguar version obviously) were actually made by ID software as replacements to Tower of Babel and the original Hell Keep. All the other PlayStation exclusive levels were made by that games mapping team. I thought were really good, especially The Mansion. The turn out of PlayStation Doom was so good that they went on to make the PSX version of Final Doom and Doom 64, which are both good games as well.

Mattfrie1 said:

Well from what I read about the Xbox exclusive levels,

In fact they've been discussed right here on Doomworld.

I just played the two x-box levels, and I have to say that my memory didn't serve me wrong. Both those levels are awful. Sewers is just one really confusing maze that I got lost in for most of the time. I had to turn on the automap cheat to actually see where I was going. Betray is yet another confusing level, except instead of a maze, it's one big teleporter fest.

The two exclusive Jaguar levels are way better IMO, and the PSX levels just blow the out of the water. At least you can enjoy yourself while playing those levels.