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alamainaloha

DoomBuilder; Aesthetics

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ok… aloha777.wad morphed into aloha778.wad, was zipped, uploaded and it is done.

Now what?

Build another wad of course!

But before I make the commitment and the attempt, a couple of things to resolve…



Doom Builder version 1.68 build 385: this is the editor I used to create my wad and it had an annoying/irritating habit of malfunctioning when I tried to save my map. It would “save” with no problem 3,5 maybe 7 times and then… error message: could not save. In order to continue, I had to access the backup wad and rename it. A rough estimate of the number of times I had to resort to this method of bringing up the back-up to continue working on my map… 250 times. It was frustrating. But being hard-headed, stubborn and obstinate, I just sucked it up and kept going and going and going.

So…

If I build another map, this annoying/irritating habit has got to be resolved, first.

Any quick fixes out there for this problem? Maybe another editor?

(I’m running Vista Premium.)



The other concern I’d like to resolve is…


The conflict and balance between gameplay and aesthetics.

From DoomWorld/ID Games, a couple of comments on aloha777, which was given 3 stars:


“Well… it’s ugly but, it was actually still kinda fun honestly.”

“ … I would call it ok, it looks pretty bad but plays a bit better.”


So they liked playing it, but didn’t care for the look.

Aside from being relative and generic, “ugly” is not constructive criticism.

Am I missing something here in terms of utilizing new textures? Is it the lighting? Is it the physical layout of the map itself? Just what is “ugly” referring to?

Perhaps someone can name a couple of wads that I can download to see just what is possible with Doom editing in terms of aesthetics… a couple of wads that were not designated “ugly”.

Well, at least the two players kind of liked the gameplay, ugly-looking wad or not. That's something.



Thanks,

A

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Ugly.




I am kidding, I care not for the looks of a map that much, as much as I enjoy a nice looking map, I still think the fun factor overrules the detail.

To save your maps without error, go to the task manager and then to the processes tab. Under the processes, select "explorer.exe" and end that process. You will lose your desktop, but will keep whatever tasks you currently have open, open. To regain your desktop, select "run" and type in "explorer.exe". Nothing will be lost. That should solve your problem with being unable to save, and also the 3dmode crash problem that arises with vista users (at least it happened to me).

Edit: I haven't actually played or seen the map yet. But worry not, we're here to help (kind of... maybe... or maybe we will just demoralize you).

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I took a look at the map in Doombuilder's 3D mode, and it really looks pretty much like a '94 map. There's very little texture variation, height variation and lighting. The map seemed to be mostly made of random square hallways and rooms, with little to no distinct features.

I hate to sound mean, but really, the "ugly" does refer to "everything." :(

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ok...

can you provide the name of a wad of recent vintage that I can take a look at? Something that shows the variations in texture, and height and lighting that you mention.

A

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There are a lot of examples of very different styles, with varying levels of complexity. I think a good start, at least, would be Espi's "Suspended in Dusk" and Erik Alm's "Scythe 2".

Suspended in Dusk is a beautiful vanilla-compatible Doom2 mapset that makes excellent use of textures (both in terms of pleasing combinations, and in treating the textures realistically as physical materials), and Scythe 2 is a Boom-compatible Doom2 megawad with somewhat less focus on perfect texturing (i.e. alignments and whatnot) but still has a great visual style throughout, with many good-looking texture combinations throughout.

Come to think of it, AgentSpork's ZDoom megawad "Ultimate Simplicity" is also a great example of texture usage. Though there are some minor nitpicky flaws here and there, Spork's texture usage and color choices are generally pretty excellent.

Also, the two (so far) articles on texture usage and alignment I wrote in this thread might be of use. They don't help with color combinations (I'm not sure if I could really teach that with an article), but they explain a bunch more about what I was referring to with realistic texture usage: http://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-editing/44143-essels-mapping-tips-and-tricks/

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I see the light. Or at least I saw commando.wad. So, with aloha778, I would not use the word ugly, but rather, simplistic... or one-dimensional... or basic.

Fair enough.

Although I like the look and feel of aloha778, I agree that variations in the physical design would have made it more... appealing? more acceptable? more interesting?

But I still like the gameplay. Repeated play is fun. Go through the red doors in different order... it affects the game. Coax the hellknight to battle the revenant for you. Have the macubuses kill the spider-boss. Kill the cacodemons now... or later. And just where the hell are those lost souls this time?

Anyway, ok. I see the light.

Ball's in my court now.


btw... where can I find Suspended In Dusk and Scythe 2? They're not listed in the ftp archives.



Thanks,

A

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alamainaloha said:
btw... where can I find Suspended In Dusk and Scythe 2? They're not listed in the ftp archives.

They're here and here. Note that these two guys have had a certain style all along, especially Espi, and if someone with a different style imitates them, the result may be mediocre or pointless and it may disrupt their talent. From what I saw of your style, it's much less realistic, so I'd look for other weirder examples from where to improve looks, if that matters. If I saw anything aesthetically charming in the WADs of yours that I played it was strange architecture.

I'll get back at you once I've played through this latest release, though.

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I find that the fastest way to find wads is to google "idgames Suspended in Dusk", and it's usually the first result. The Doomworld idgames database has its own search system, but I'm lazy. :P

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alamainaloha said:...Doom Builder version 1.68 build 385...
So… Maybe another editor?[/B]

I would suggest Doombuilder2.
It's still in development, however, the present version is stable enough for just about any map. To install it successfully read this thread.

On the subject of 'The conflict and balance between gameplay and aesthetics', gameplay takes priority, the rest is a bonus.
Good luck in your endeavour.

This may be a bit unorthodox, but, to learn about gameplay have a look at OBLIGE 3.39, especially with Mr. Chris's addon for Skulltag. The maps it generates are a pure delight to play.

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This may be a bit unorthodox, but, to learn about gameplay have a look at OBLIGE 3.39, especially with Mr. Chris's addon for Skulltag. The maps it generates are a pure delight to play.

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The graphic says it all! Not so much nowdays... the wounds have scarred over and I don't bleed as much. There is a certain comfort zone now regarding the multiple, multiple savings necessary in this version of DoomBuilder. Thanks for the suggestions of DoomBuilder2 and/or turning off explorer.exe in Task Manager to resolve this problem.

I took a look at Suspended In Dusk. Wow! There's an overhead crane with a crate attached! Haven't had the time to go deep in this wad yet, but so far... wow!

I found Suspended In Dusk at the ftp site, it was listed as SID zip.

Could't find Scythe 2 though. Does it have a different listing?

Oblige 3.39... can be found at? Didn't see it at the ftp site.

Definitions: any FAQ available that summarizes the Doom Universe? What are Boom, jDoom, Skull Tag, Ultimate Doom, Z Doom, Vanilla Doom, Chocolate Doom?

Is there a one-stop shop to download new textures, new sounds, new monsters?


ok, enuf 4 now... my head is swimming, and I have no life vest.



A

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alamainaloha said:

Is there a one-stop shop to download new textures, new sounds, new monsters?

There are some good resource websites, but for the time being I'd recommend sticking to the basic resources and getting to know how the basic stuff works better. Often when less experienced mappers start stuffing their projects with all manners of new resources the resulting maps will just end up feeling like a complete mess.

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alamainaloha said:
I found Suspended In Dusk at the ftp site, it was listed as SID zip.

Could't find Scythe 2 though. Does it have a different listing?

You must have me on ignore :p

(They're both linked to in my first post above.)

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Definitions: any FAQ available that summarizes the Doom Universe? What are Boom, jDoom, Skull Tag, Ultimate Doom, Z Doom, Vanilla Doom, Chocolate Doom?

The Doom Wiki should answer most of your questions - I'd start with the source ports section.

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to: MYK

Nope, did not put you on (in) ignore. Just didn't know how it worked. I clicked on your links and it took me directly to the synopsis page. I saw the options of returning to the parent directory and/or going to a mirror site to download. Didn't know the first option had no download capability, and didn't know that just a click on the mirror site button would initiate the download. I figured going to the original site, rather than a mirror, would be better.

ok... another small piece of the puzzle falls into place.


now... I'm out the door, but when I come back, it's Doom Wiki time.


Thanks,

A

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alamainaloha said:

Is there a one-stop shop to download new textures, new sounds, new monsters?


It's quite ZDoom-centric (not all ports have the same mechanisms to add new creatures/weapons/other stuff) but Torm's site is trying to be just that. For textures, you also have the Afterglow.

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... to those who commented on aloha777, please comment on aloha808.

... anyone else also, regarding aesthetics and gameplay.

... deathmatch in aloha808 was untested; if you tried it, drop a short line... does this map work for deathmatch?



a

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