Plutonia 2 - How good do you think it is?

I agree with r_rr! 5/5!

it was decent i would say it goes good to call it a sequel to the original though i wouldnt call it godly by any means

Excellent. But am I the only person in teh world who hated MAP11? maybe its just because I despise Arch Viles bu ti just found it incredibly frustrating.

Plutonia 2 is a good WAD, I admire the workmanship and effort that went into balancing the levels for gameplay, but some touches do rather irritate me. I found it hard on occasion to locate the keys (in the earlier maps at least), because many of them were partially hidden in alcoves that I wouldn't otherwise think to look in. There's not a lot of contrast, making these alcoves even harder to see for me. Plus, I'm just not much of a fan of the Plutonia style in the first place - not to discredit the team for what is obviously a great megawad; it's simply not to my taste is all.

Plutonia 2's problem is that there are very few maps that really stand out from the rest. Having played it almost right after it came out, there are only two maps that I can recall even a little, and the other one is map11 so that doesn't count because it's a gimmick map (and thus easier to remember). The wad is good, but definitely not stellar, and it doesn't earn any bonus points for being innovative or a sleeper hit either.

PhilibusMo said:

Excellent. But am I the only person in teh world who hated MAP11? maybe its just because I despise Arch Viles bu ti just found it incredibly frustrating.

Well it's a very good-looking map, and the music fits very well, but imho the original "Hunted" was more effective : Arch-Viles weren't blocked by "block monster" lines everywhere and could roam around freely. Here the hide-and-seek factor is reduced.
Still, a good map, visually really impressive by doom2.exe standards.

[WH]-Wilou84 said:
Arch-Viles weren't blocked by "block monster" lines everywhere and could roam around freely.

That did make Plutonia's unique, although also rather random when trying to do max kills on it, as the arch-viles can roam a lot.

Jodwin said:
Plutonia 2's problem is that there are very few maps that really stand out from the rest.

As I see it, while there are various levels that seem bits of the same texture-wise and in architecture, in another aspect that lack of distinction is a merit, as you've got a large number of intense and balanced levels. This due to the demands by the designers and testers, who nuked many of the original PL2 levels to make way for more solid ones. Plutonia itself is somewhat like that, too.

Some stand out architecturally or visually. TV especially had a knack for that in the project; the rising ship, the Escher-like area of the maze, the Plutonia 2 skull logo and the final boss are all hard to forget. Yet others that don't so clearly do that may be very addictive in the way the fights are arranged and progress (Gusta stands out here in particular, but not exclusively).

All play well to superbly, some particularly stand out in aesthetic style while others in action.

Jodwin said:

Plutonia 2's problem is that there are very few maps that really stand out from the rest. Having played it almost right after it came out, there are only two maps that I can recall even a little, and the other one is map11 so that doesn't count because it's a gimmick map (and thus easier to remember). The wad is good, but definitely not stellar, and it doesn't earn any bonus points for being innovative or a sleeper hit either.

I'd have to agree with that. I liked most of it but there wasn't really much that truly stood out. We have seen almost everything it did done before, sometimes better, sometimes not. And I have to say that up until MAP17 - for me by far the highlight in it - the quality was very consistently good - but I felt that in the last third too many maps crept in that were a bit of a letdown or even some that I outright disliked - most notably MAP21 and MAP28. So in the end I'd stand by the assessment I gave after playing half-way through it: It's good but far from excellent.

But it definitely gets a bonus point for the best main menu replacement I have ever seen.

[WH]-Wilou84 said:

Well it's a very good-looking map, and the music fits very well, but imho the original "Hunted" was more effective : Arch-Viles weren't blocked by "block monster" lines everywhere and could roam around freely. Here the hide-and-seek factor is reduced.
Still, a good map, visually really impressive by doom2.exe standards.

Hi, well I originally wanted to give archies more freedom of movement, but it was happening to me during the testing of earlier versions that I ended with mass of unhandable archies on one place and then half of the map stayed absolutely empty and boring. So this solution turned out as the best for the gameplay in the final shape of the map. I have never been fully satisfied with it myself though. Wanted to reach better "being-hunted" effect too.

Plutonias was an actual maze with a lot of doors that opened up accidentally by walking over certain lines. It would have been pretty difficult to recreate that and do it right. Arch-Violence was still a cool map though.

PhilibusMo said:

Excellent. But am I the only person in teh world who hated MAP11? maybe its just because I despise Arch Viles bu ti just found it incredibly frustrating.

I have to admit I hated the map at first, but it was much more fun the second time I played it.

I thought it was excellent. I really like Gusta's work. Anyways, I don't think the fact that no map particularly "stood out" is a problem, because all the maps are high quality. Trying to detract from how much you like a wad based on the fact that there weren't many maps that trumped the rest is just silly. It's like saying that a wad with 4 highlight maps and 28 sub-par maps is better than pl2, which the worst maps in it are still above average, and there are like 2 of those.

Well, I felt as if each map was very different from each other.

I think its an excellent wad. It attempted to recreate that Plutonia feel and did so with great success. My congrats to the entire PL2 team.

Excellent. Very fun wad so far, I'm on MAP05 so far, enjoying the creativity invested in the levels so far. Although its not as overdosed on chaingunners as the original was, but that's a good thing. Whoever voted worst wad ever obviously must have done it to be on the contrary. But if you hated Plutonia, you may not like it.

Jodwin said:

Plutonia 2's problem is that there are very few maps that really stand out from the rest. Having played it almost right after it came out, there are only two maps that I can recall even a little, and the other one is map11 so that doesn't count because it's a gimmick map (and thus easier to remember). The wad is good, but definitely not stellar, and it doesn't earn any bonus points for being innovative or a sleeper hit either.

Yea that's what i though as well, i liked the WAD at first but then i later stopped playing it and just gave up because i got tired of playing the same kind of map over and over, i was begging the WAD for a different kind of "next level" each time i pressed the exit switch/entered the exit teleporter and i was almost never granted my wish :(

Its a good wad, no doubt, but Im not a very big fan of the..hmm feeling I get from the maps. Thats just my super humble subjective opinion though.

The maps in Plutonia 2 made me dislike my own stuff, its that good :p

Hell, no! :-D

plutonia2? More like fuckedwithachaingun_thesequel.wad

I mean god damn, seriously.

Best. Intermission. Music. Ever.

... wait :P

Ha, you weren't expecting that, were you?

I was glad to find good use for that track you had sent me long ago, and it seemed quite suitable here.

myk said:

Ha, you weren't expecting that, were you?

I was glad to find good use for that track you had sent me long ago, and it seemed quite suitable here.

Well, I was very surprised but quite honored actually.

Very good creativity, in the maps, but not the best wad ever.

Apologize for reviving this topic, but I really want to throw my opinion in.

Plutonia 2 will go down as one of the best WADs ever created. I thought nothing would ever come close to dethroning Alien Vendetta as my favorite WAD ever, but this gave it a pretty good run. Plutonia 2 makes it ok for you to be jealous. I had my fair share of jealously here. You can obviously tell that the authors spent a lot of time devloping this WAD, and it paid off. The detail and level creativity is tremendous.

My favorite maps were 11, 29, 30, 31, and 32. I like the crap involved with 11. 29 was beyond epic. That level must've taken way too long to finish. I found the Commander Keen secrets and it was pretty cool. I also loved that fall into Hell near the end, and it's also funny to see that the Wolf SS Soldiers and Commander Keens didn't go unnoticed in this WAD. :) There is nothing negative about this level.

Map30 did have an epic fight. That final boss also looks very scary and bone chilling, even for a game originally released in 1993. Just wow. The whole black void thing was just outstanding.

Map31 doesn't really need much of an explanation. Pretty much a sequel to Plutonia's Cyberden.

Map32 had me ripping my hair out in the final room, but I got through it. Great seeing E1M1 and D5M1 merging together. My strategy is fairly time consuming, but you'll be in great shape if you just let every_single_monster fight to the death. Even though monsters will never "intentionally" hit Arch-viles (but the Arch-vile does fight back), just get the Arch-viles jammed up and the monsters will have them gobbled up. This map also made me appreciate Arachnotrons and their awesome ability to fight, even if they have lower HP than a number of monsters.

The music put in was also great. Map30's track was perfectly fitting for the level. Map03's track is possibly my favorite to come out of Plutonia2. And don't get me started on Map32. That tune was beyond catchy. Taking Doom E2M8's infamous Tower of Babel song and turning it into a nice fast-paced technolike song was an outstanding idea.

peach freak said:

And don't get me started on Map32. That tune was beyond catchy. Taking Doom E2M8's infamous Tower of Babel song and turning it into a nice fast-paced technolike song was an outstanding idea.

I really don't understand how that song managed to become probably the most popular track of Plutonia 2 - I rushed it horribly. xP

It's pretty good, yet not excellent. I find some of the levels way too cramped (specially the first ones), while Plutonia most of the time gives you enough space to maneuver at will .

The final boss was without a doubt the best new Icon of sin wall I have never seen. Too bad it was so much of a frustration to beat it without cheating.

Hehe ... "cramped" :-D
You could be happy that you had not seen the original beta version of Pl2 developed by the previous team. That wad perfectly showed how the "cramped" maps really look like ... that was horribleee :-)
This "new" pl2 is full of opened unlinear maps and provides you pretty much of space for improvisation and chance to play the maps in many many ways and strategies, although some aggresive play is mostly needed to survive there. pl2 is not for lazy doomers, those should play some other wads, not this ;-)
Anyway I misunterstand how somebody could vote for "average" or even "poor" in this poll. If you consider this vanilla-mapping as "average" then I really want to see an "excellent" map from you that runs with vanilla doom2.exe and is made in "plutonic" style.
Stop complaining, I am also really happy that most of people liked our work, thanks for the support folks!

I voted excelent. Secret maps are very good

Not to mention about the music, Map02's (Jungle Spirits) song got me in a jungle mood. I was tempted to make monkey and jungle sounds playing through that map.

And for the Plutonia developers that posted here, is it true that an update is in the works? One of my personal feedbacks is that Plutonia 2's soundtrack does NOT play when playing online with ZDaemon, due to an unknown keyword being recognized in Plutonia2's MAPINFO (possibly nocrouch, unless that's DEHACKED). Therefore, we're stuck with it playing Plutonia's original soundtrack.

There are at least two solutions for this: Could it be updated to be ZDaemon friendly, perhaps? Also, my other solution is what I've been working on, but never finished: create a WAD with Plutonia 2's music and load that onto a server.

Excellent. Actually I didn't like it much when I played through several first maps - I always compared them to Casali brothers' undying masterpiece, which is still much better IMO, and stood a bit disappointed. But towards the end I finally realized that pl2 is very cool on its own and I'd better stop bitching. =) Besides, I'm glad to see high-quality vanilla megawad nowadays. So, shortly after its completion I've changed my mind and included pl2 in my top ten. =)

peach freak said:

Not to mention about the music, Map02's (Jungle Spirits) song got me in a jungle mood. I was tempted to make monkey and jungle sounds playing through that map.

And for the Plutonia developers that posted here, is it true that an update is in the works? One of my personal feedbacks is that Plutonia 2's soundtrack does NOT play when playing online with ZDaemon, due to an unknown keyword being recognized in Plutonia2's MAPINFO (possibly nocrouch, unless that's DEHACKED). Therefore, we're stuck with it playing Plutonia's original soundtrack.

There are at least two solutions for this: Could it be updated to be ZDaemon friendly, perhaps? Also, my other solution is what I've been working on, but never finished: create a WAD with Plutonia 2's music and load that onto a server.

The wad is vanilla compatible, with entries that zdoom based engines should be able to understand.. so frankly I think ZDaemon should be updated if it's having problems.

This wad contains both a dehacked and a mapinfo lump. The purpose of mapinfo I suppose is disable both jumping and crouching, but it also appears to set the music and map names for each level. I don't see what the point of that is, considering it was already taken care of by the dehacked...