Scythe2 - final version released.

Erik said:

The map14 switch was an intentional trick that failed to work =) I don't see a good way to implement it so I wont bother.

Fair enough but for what it is worth I still will offer a couple of suggestions.



One idea would be to remove the special and tag from linedef 4894, then make sector 1175 have tag 35 instead of 33, thus using the lift itself lowering to trigger the baron teleport, instead of the separate lowering floor as the current version has.

In the current version, taking the normal route, it teleports the instant you walk onto the lift, which is only a few tics later than when you press the button, and is thus hardly a change.

However the baron will only teleport if it is awake at the instant the switch is pressed. That would be a minor difference in a run where the player managed to stay silent until well after the lift was used.



Alternatively, put a linedef between vertices 3721 and 3719, and make that have special 36 and tag 35, instead of linedef 4894.

Why didn't I think of that.

map14 baron teleport sector now has tag 33

Nitpicky secret sectors ...

In Map04 at this point, this room by the arachnotron is tagged secret but the spot it teleports to right about here is also tagged secret. Just thought I'd bring this up.

Erik said:

Kristian Ronge said:
Could someone tell me how to reach the secret exit in map 15? There's a switch that's supposed to give access to it (at the base of the last elevator), but it's not tagged correctly; the tag doesn't do anything!

It seems like it requires -complevel 3+
That exit was a late addition to the wad and I guess I had DB set in boom mode when making it.

Anima Zero said:
Map 16: Well, this one doesn't require -complevel 3/5 to complete it, but for maxdemos, -complevel 3/5 needs to be used so the crushers work properly.

Map 32: A switch right after hitting the YSK switch doesn't work on -complevel 0. Need to use -complevel 3/5 here to complete the level.

In addition, in level 32, the switch lowering the exit from the pool area doesn't work and the island doesn't rise when you get the blue key.

Angus Thermopyle said:
For Map17 -complevel 3/5 is required. The switch at the plasma gun shortly after the yellow door doesn't work with -complevel 0/1.

Erik said:
I am not 100% sure. I have done all testing up to map20 with -complevel 1. After I made that 4-switch thingy on map20 that needed boom specials I let both doombuilder and prboom stay at boom compat. I dont think that I used any more boom specials though except one thing in map21 which I changed during bugfixing/tweaking. Also there are lighting effects in map27 using light transfer specials, but those work even with -complevel 1.

There's something weird about level 22, as it terminates Doom+ with the following error message:

Z_CT at w_wad.c:510

It doesn't look like a nodebuilder issue because rebuilding nodes with ZenNode and BSP didn't help. I see no error messages in PrBoom+ or ZDoom.

In level 24, you need to go over a pit to hit the switch that lowers the red skull key. It won't rise under Doom compatibility and you can get there only with a rocket jump.

Level 27 needs to have its blockmap compressed using ZenNode, so that it can be Doom+ compatible (as there's a maximum size of 64KB for the lump).

Rename FF_END to F_END so Doom+ can read the added flats directly (one will still need to add sprites, but it's pointless to have to add all the extra flats when one can just rename that lump).

I have uploaded the wad a few hours ago anyway.

Map22 I was unable to fix. No idea what is going on actually.

Map24 eh, it works fine for me with all imaginable complevels...

Map32 has been fixed.

Map27 has its blockmap compressed (and so does all the other levels as well).

FF_END/F_END is not fixed and I wont bother reupload just for that. It still works fine.

Heh, now I notice some of the stuff I was reporting was already fixed. Serves me right for being a dumb ass and not reading the posts above.

Erik said:
Map22 I was unable to fix. No idea what is going on actually.

Phew, I found it. It's not so serious... it's just the music lump! Deleting it or -nomusic lets the level run.

Map24 eh, it works fine for me with all imaginable complevels...

You jump down into the pit in the room before the alcove with the key (most of which is also a pit), and the floor rises, along with the floor before the key. In Doom+ only the pit you jump into rises, whereas the one before the red key doesn't.

I attached two nomo demos, one recorded with Boom, showing the intended behavior, and another showing the bug in Doom+. I got a hint of what might be up from chocorenderlimits. I jumped into the pit using that engine and it terminated. Its error log contained the following:

Error: Sector with more than 22 adjoining sectors. Vanilla will crash here

abnormal program termination

FF_END/F_END is not fixed and I wont bother reupload just for that.

No problem; Doom+ users can easily fix it manually when they import the sprites, or just patch both sprites and flats.

EDIT: Wow. No wonder we had different results regarding level 24. PrBoom+ in Doom compatibility is not behaving the same way as the DOS executable. This is something for entryway to check out. Let's see what he says.

s224-bug.zip

Heh, it rises when I play the demo back with prboom... Let's see...

Yeah, see my edit. There's a compatibility issue.

myk said:

There's a compatibility issue.

No. It is not fixable. See stdout.txt

stdout.txt said:
P_FindNextHighestFloor: Overflow of heightlist[20] array is detected.
Sector 1476, line 8011, heightlist index 20: successfully emulated.
P_FindNextHighestFloor: Overflow of heightlist[20] array is detected.
Sector 1476, line 8012, heightlist index 21: successfully emulated.
P_FindNextHighestFloor: Overflow of heightlist[20] array is detected.
Sector 1476, line 8016, heightlist index 22: cannot be emulated - unpredictable behaviour.
P_FindNextHighestFloor: Overflow of heightlist[20] array is detected.
Sector 1476, line 8017, heightlist index 23: cannot be emulated - unpredictable behaviour.
P_FindNextHighestFloor: Overflow of heightlist[20] array is detected.
Sector 1476, line 8019, heightlist index 24: cannot be emulated - unpredictable behaviour.

// Emulation of stack overflow.
// 20: overflow affects nothing - just a luck;
// 21: can be emulated;
// 22..26: overflow affects saved registers - unpredictable behaviour, can crash;
// 27: overflow affects return address - crash with high probability;
if (compatibility_level < dosdoom_compatibility && h >= MAX_ADJOINING_SECTORS)
{
  lprintf(LO_WARN, "P_FindNextHighestFloor:"
    "Overflow of heightlist[%d] array is detected.\n",
    MAX_ADJOINING_SECTORS);

Erik can fix it

Alright. Erik, please fix it... it's the only issue left, I think :p

I dont get it. In plain english, what is causing the problem?

Erik said:

I dont get it. In plain english, what is causing the problem?

Sector 1476 has too many lines (29). Doom tries to enumerate and save all adjoining sectors for every line of sector #1476 with higher floor height into array with static size (20). Algo is stupid. So, even if you will have one sector with more than 20 lines completely inside another sector - you will have an overflow. You can fix it with single line between vertexes 6550 and 6586 for example. It should split sector 1476

Ok I get it now...

Split both sectors 1552 and 1476 to be on the safe side.

I guess you run into many strange limitations when making high detail maps. I will reupload scythe2.zip.

Erik said:

Ok I get it now...

Split both sectors 1552 and 1476 to be on the safe side.

I guess you run into many strange limitations when making high detail maps. I will reupload scythe2.zip.

I hope you tried it with prboom-plus -complevel 2, crossed the line and looked into stout.txt :)

entryway said:

I hope you tried it with prboom-plus -complevel 2, crossed the line and looked into stout.txt :)

yes, no errors.

myk+entryway: Btw, I guess I should run stuff through you guys before release in the future :P

You might want to check for the exploit of purposely not shooting at the start to leave warping monsters dormant for the newer maps (allowed big battle skips on 27, but then again made for an interesting route and might have been intentional for all I know).

edit: I just saw that pacifist run now. I was thinking about the uvmax run (death destiny got 18:55 by not shooting beyond certain block sound lines). Still it can be interesting to find tricks like that. But it might make it play quite a bit differently than the creator intended so just mentioning.

gggmork said:

You might want to check for the exploit of purposely not shooting at the start to leave warping monsters dormant for the newer maps (allowed big battle skips on 27, but then again made for an interesting route and might have been intentional for all I know).

that pacifist run on map27 is one of the most impressive demos i've seen, the 'dormant' style shouldn't be considered a taboo imho. at least if it doesn't make the map trivial.

Luck-based stuff (like some parts in the map27 pacifist route, and in other wads) make me hate doom.

Just wanted to note, since the author didn't note it after saying he uploaded it, the full version is now available in the archives; it can be accessed at http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=13600.

I played the last three maps, and thought they were a fairly solid finish to an awesome megawad. Map28 is a BFG slaughterfest, Map29 was a more typical level and not nearly as cramped, but it still manages to be pretty challenging, then Map30 is another slaughterfest and it, well, I don't want to spoil any surprises, but I will say that as Erik promised earlier, there is a surprise to be found - play it and see. Good work, Erik!

This looks pretty epic.

New maps are pretty fun... and I like the huge shortcut in map30! Pretty solid level design as well.

Great job Erik!

Maldoror said:

New maps are pretty fun... and I like the huge shortcut in map30! Pretty solid level design as well.

Great job Erik!

What shortcut?

...damn, can't exploit Map 28 anymore...XP. Like what you did with the place now with complete textures and added surprises. I'll be on this one for a while before the other two, it's permanently embedded into my brain.

In case you didn't know, the player start in 28 is very slightly stuck in the bars (but its easy to pry yourself loose). Also lost heretic found that you can squeeze out of the secret area between 2 things.

^^^

Heh, you mean the 2 trees closest to the teleporter in the Afrit secret area...I knew I forgot to include something...-_-'

Not gonna update unless something really big turns up.

gggmork said:
In case you didn't know, the player start in 28 is very slightly stuck in the bars (but its easy to pry yourself loose).

That worried me for a second because it can cause weird shit in Doom, but Doom+ loads the level fine... hopefully players 2-4 aren't in bad locations anywhere :p

The new maps are fun! :)

New maps are pretty damn good.