Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Do0minat0r

Which half of Final Doom is better?

Recommended Posts

evilution has some amazing maps (see mount pain) and soundtracks (wormhole and pharaoh come to mind) as well as that night sky which was something quite special at the time. on the gameplay side though you're often running through huge maps with no end in sight, killing imps and zombies. plutonia is more conservative in design, a few brownish new textures, relatively cramped maps with big monsters galore. so for me the question is rather what do you prefer, variety or challenging gameplay.

Share this post


Link to post

While I like both, Plutonia beats out Evilution in my book because I felt like Plutonia had a more sinister feel to it. Plutonia had a more threatening, dreadful air about it. Every map I started felt like something colossally fucked up was going to happen and nine times out of ten, it did. I felt like Plutonia really captured the essence of what Doom is, and that is not to take anything for granted as you progress through the levels. Otherwise you'll end up as a red stain on the ground.

I can't count how many times I ended up as a red stain in Plutonia. :P

Share this post


Link to post

It probably helps Plutonia in the consistency field that the maps were made by only two authors while TNT was made by many, creating a weird collection of maps, while Plutonia remains the same look and feel throughout.

I can always tell when a megawad is made by more than one author compared to a megawad that was made by one or two people. And arguably, the latter seems to produce better results (Scythe, Scythe 2, Kama Sutra, Rebirth)

Share this post


Link to post

All this talk about Plutonia Map29 intrigues me. I have yet to beat the episiode, but I have IDCLEV'ed to each level at least once and dont remember anything about a city.

I'm defininitely going ot have to play Plutonia through soon.

I used to play Go 2 It loads in the day, and this one time my friend came over, I made him play the level with -fast and -respawn on UV with IDDQD. He didnt know I had basically enabled Nightmare with cheats, and thought this was how Doom really was, and it was hilarious.

Share this post


Link to post

Chrispaks said:
Things I liked about TNT

Map32 didn't feel like an accurate bonus level, but the design was amazing.

Map31 was awesome, though as someone said... AV map20 beats it.

Map18 (Mill) was my favorite map bar none in the wad. The detail was great.

Incidentally, those three are by Dario Casali (though 18 was to a lesser degree edited by Ty Halderman.)

Map20 has really ambient music, very fun to listen to.

Yes, that's probably my favorite in the WAD. Curiously, the composer, Tom Mustaine, said it was lame in a page he had about music he had composed for games, probably because it wasn't done with much technical merit. But it does get the mood right.

Share this post


Link to post
Bashe said:

I'm going against to the grain and saying I liked Evilution better. The map design was iffy, but I enjoyed the gameplay. Plutonia looked a lot better, but was too much of a ragefest for me, with its cheap traps and chaingunner rape. There's difficult, then there's downright unfair.

Cue "you suck at Doom" comments...now.

There are skill levels you know.

Share this post


Link to post

Up to Map18 in Plutonia 2. Really good stuff, even if the style repeats quite often, but that existed in the original Plutonia too. Map32 really is easier if you use the Cybers to your advantage and BFG the Archviles as quickly as possible, and Map17 is sure the definition of nonlinearity; I explored the whole thing, though not sure if I had to, and found all 3 keys, but I was frustrated only once - right near the end when trying to find the blue switch to open up the exit area.

Anyway, I've been satisfied by just about every map so far, just like the original Plutonia. I think both Plutonia's are very (and equally) fun, but better architecture makes PL2 my preference at this point, even if it isn't a 100% style match to the original; it's close enough regardless.

Share this post


Link to post

Both have their strong points I think. With the pass of the years I think Plutonia remains more solid, yet I also like Evilution a lot.

If they only had a new boss for each episode, or at least a new minor enemy to use in both episodes, or even new gun, then Final DOOM would be legendary (now it's just epic!). Even a new face for the "icon of sin" would have done the trick.

I wish they made the last episode of Evilution more like the hell ship mentioned in the manual (I play these maps imagining it's the ship).

Share this post


Link to post
Vegeta said:

I wish they made the last episode of Evilution more like the hell ship mentioned in the manual (I play these maps imagining it's the ship).


Now that you mention it, yeah, they kind of went away from what was stated in the manual in terms of level design. I always wondered what was up with that. ?:

Share this post


Link to post

MAP21 does look like a ship of sorts (meh). I think by the time the place becomes all red, you're in hell... But I hated TNT's last chapter anyway.

Share this post


Link to post

I was kind of disappointed Evilution didn't have any hellship maps too. It could've been like Duke ep. 2, only heller. Yeah.

Share this post


Link to post

Almost done playing Plutonia 2. Very good megawad, I'd say, even if it feels slightly different from the original, but it certainly bears some similarity. Yes its repetitious, but the style is a good one and I've enjoyed all of it through; maybe I rarely wanted to play more than 3 or so maps at once, but once I took a quick break, I was ready to enjoy again. So in other words, those who say the style keeps repeating have a point, but since it's a good style, it's easy to enjoy the whole thing a good bit as long as you don't try to play it totally nonstop. Not to mention, the original Plutonia had that issue, even though smaller maps meant that I could play more levels in once session without needing a quick break. And that in itself has a positive effect, in making the wad last me longer.

Oh, and the last map I've played, Map28, is coincidentally my favorite so far. Yes just about every level in here is quality, but this one just felt like something even more, something even the previous 27 levels lacked. It just seemed perfectly balanced and I loved the way it is designed. I think I'd give most maps in here a 8 or 9/10, but this one I'd give a 10, it's one of the best levels I remember playing recently IMO. And Map29 (which I should get to tomorrow) looks epic as well, being the largest level and the one with the most monsters; seems appropriate for the final normal level.

All in all, my preliminary rating for PL2 is a 9/10, as it is consistently high quality, even if there are only a few maps I'd call totally "outstanding" (and not to mention, a few minor bugs here and there, yet nothing to ruin the experience). It looks better than the original and is just as much fun, as long as you don't try to rush through huge chunks of it nonstop in one sitting. It also lasts longer than the first Plutonia, due to bigger levels overall, which both take more time to solve, and also result in a lower average number of maps to play per session.

Tomorrow I'll probably finish PL2, which will mark the end of my Plutonia playthroughs. I might, as I said, play Evilution again someday, though I'll probably play some other maps first.

Share this post


Link to post

I decided to get off my butt and finish Plutonia, and I must say, my skills must have increased, because I got up to Map14 in one sitting. Hunted wasnt the impossible nightmare it was before, and Ive currently got 100% kills, secrets and items for all 13 finished levels. Currently the only hard levels were Caged and Abbatoire. Abbatoire has the most brutal level end ive seen in a long while. Since body armour seems to be extremely rare in Plutonia, I had to do lot of levels without any armour, which isnt very funny, with almost every zombie being a chaingunner.

Currently "Speed" is my favourite Plutonia level, that one was so much fun from beginning to end.

Share this post


Link to post

Evilution has great music which sounds great on my Roland wave table card. It's also a terrific Co-op game. I have not played Plutonia Co-Op yet, but single player, I also preferred Evilution.....

Share this post


Link to post

Plutonia stuck in my mind more when it came out. They feel completely different. Plutonia felt more consistent and for whatever reason I liked that, and I couldn't have been older than 12. The same holds true today. I think it's more of the mapping style of Plutonia that I love and then it's consistent through the wad.

Certain things stick out in my mind like Map02 with the invisible bridge that is pointed out when you shoot the console and it appears again in map03. Map31 especially because you're plopped with 4 cyberdemons looking at you. And you are relieved to find they are dormant after pooping your pants. I think the sheer difficulty of the levels scared me. I was young and I had shareware doom and final doom. Huge difference in difficulty :P.

Share this post


Link to post

Plutonia, Hands Down can't really stand the non Challenge level of TNT, I Like to Bleed and know at any minute i could die in the game TNT I blazed through on UV with havin to restart a map..Plutonia on the other hand...that is like the Affair you wish you had ya know? it hurts knowin your playin it but it feels right and once you beat it you have that major sense of Accomplishment at the end. but eh thats me

Share this post


Link to post

No doubt Evilution. Never been a big fan of Plutonia (still very good though), and playing Evilution makes me sooo damn nostalgic. Gonna have to play through it again soon

Share this post


Link to post

I haven't finished either, but based on the first ~10 maps, Plutonia wins hands down.

I think alot of what 40oz said above hits the nail right on the head. TNT is essentially a 1996 community megawad by multiple 1996 community authors, making what the 1996 community wanted. In an era when people were obsessed with "realistic" architecture like wooden seats or zombiemen at consoles (let's not the forget the ubiquitous toilet), when walking around going "wow, this really is a power station" was cool, these maps were right at home. Today, nobody cares about that stuff because it's all been done and indeed we've learned that forced realism detracts from what Doom is all about. I'm sure there are some great maps throughout the set, but the multiple authors are painfully visible in the lack of design consistency and difficulty consistency. There are at least a couple of maps I'm surprised even made it (the absolutely hintless flick-switches-whilst-absolutely-surrounded-by-things-shooting-from-the-dark trap in the middle of MAP07 is one of the most poorly designed encounters I've ever played).

Plutonia on the other hand eschews realism in favor of consistent theming and challenging layouts. Some might not think it's beautiful in alot of places (personally I love a good theme, even if it's plain wood/bricks and green camo) but at least it feels like it has a sense of location and continuity, no doubt a product of having just two authors instead of many. There's also something about the varied battles, where you can pingpong between 150 health and 20 health multiple times in each map and somehow it doesn't feel unfair. Sure there are some ludicrously hard bits you need prior knowledge of to survive, but the locations are honest in that it's obvious what you need to do next and they are not fooling you into believing they are some kind of real-world structure which the Doom engine simply can't reproduce.

Plutonia feels like a challenge, I find myself excited to play on and see what's going to get sprung on me next. TNT is mostly ugly, inconsistent and often confusing and unfair maps. It lacks that feeling of exploration and most of all the thing that makes me still play Doom after all these years - fun.

Share this post


Link to post

Seems like Doominator wants people to PROVE to him which is better. It's a matter of opinion dude. We get it, you like Plutonia better. Seems to me there's plenty of people that prefer one, the other, and there's a fair amount of people who like both.

Me personally, I like both. Which one I like better really just depends on my mood. I used to like Plutonia better, then I liked TNT better. Now I'm kind of in the middle, maybe leaning a little more towards Plutonia but that's probably just because I played TNT so many times.

As far as the consistency goes, I'd say considering how many people built the maps for TNT it still ended up with pretty good progression.

I haven't played Plutonia 2, I guess I haveta go download that now.

Share this post


Link to post

Plutonia. It is hard and continuous hot combat style, which I love. There are lots of traps and monsters and I love both traps and monsters.

TNT is boring to me. Never finished it off.

Share this post


Link to post

Well after passing up this topic for too long I decided to answer this wonderful question: I like both :)

Share this post


Link to post
Philnemba said:

Well after passing up this topic for too long I decided to answer this wonderful question: I like both :)


You... just gave a three word response in a 19 word reply.

Share this post


Link to post
Abyssalstudios1 said:

You... just gave a three word response in a 19 word reply.


Well to that I say: And ?

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×