New mapper needs feedback

Hello folks.

I finished my map01-02 from a wad im working on and i could use some feedback from you guys to keep me going.

I have made a couple of maps before this one that i wasn't really satisfied with, then i got some advice from my brother (/wave Erik) and i created this in 3 days.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Z51LJ91J

EDIT:Sorry for all the problems with Prboom, i have now did some proper testing and both maps are working for me with Prboom.

The first room took me 1 day to create as im still quite a slow mapper and then the rest just flowed on.

I think the map will work quite nicely as a DM map and i have added in some spawns and weapons for it.

The map is created in Doombuilder 2 and only tested in Gzdoom, there are no custom textures or special effects.

Here are some screenies:

MAP 01:
http://sv.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=eree0y&s=3
http://sv.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2qwe7uo&s=3
http://sv.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=34nh6dd&s=3
http://sv.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2hhlkxh&s=3

MAP 02:
http://sv.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=10i5mc8&s=3
http://sv.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=i6e3ux&s=3
http://sv.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=1zcfrr8&s=3


Would be awesome with some feedback so i know what to work on for my future maps.

Thx guys.

If your brother is Erik then you have great expectations to live up to. Those screens look really great, especially if you've only done a couple maps beforehand.

I was really impressed with the gameplay! The layout was smooth, and looked really good. The only thing I noticed is that there was some HOM where there should have been sky.

Check this screen: http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f96/MannyKrispavera/Screenshot_Doom_20090909_075724.png

I didn't look at the file in DB2, but what I'm thinking is that the ceiling isn't all the way to the floor. Make sure that the ceiling has an F_Sky flat, and that its height is the same as the floor. That should fix that.

Hmm, ok, it didn't look like that when i tried it with GzDoom, ill try and fix it.

Thx for the good review otherwise :D

yay, 2 doom mappers in the Alm family now.

Looks and plays very well. Especially impressed that there are no horribly executed ideas like many "first maps" have.

Thx Erik :)

About the sky problem, i've tried several heights with the sky but i can't get it to work with prboom, ill take a look at one of Erik's maps and maybe i can work out how to do.

Here's your problem: http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f96/MannyKrispavera/Untitled.jpg

Instead of just having an untextured wall around the edge, create a small sector around the edge and lower it all the way to the floor with an f_sky flat on the ceiling. That'll solve your problem.

Yeah, i just found that on Scythe X map02 and put that in on my map, works like a charm now, just need to fix some small other probs in prboom and it will work like a charm.

Thx mate.


EDIT: I will upload the updated version that is now tested with PrBoom.

Looks good, plays good. Looking forward to see more maps from you.

A very nice first release. :) You had good height differences, some windows between areas and the monster placement in the last fight was nice (particularly the cacos). The emphasis on the chaingun was also a nice change of pace from most maps, and in case you happen to miss the shotgun room first (like I did) everything isn't still lost thanks to the chainsaw.

It's also nice to hear more Guilty Gear music in Doom. :P

I got a first try demo if you care for those, though I must say I played stupidly fast for a first try there (caused me to miss the shotgun room, for one). But I blame the music for that, I start playing faster and more recklessly when there's good, fast music in the map. :)

Brothers? Oh man, there goes the neighborhood!

I really enjoyed this. Looking forward to whatever you make next.

Once all quirks and major issues are ironed out, you should upload it to the Archives.

Mr. Chris said:

Once all quirks and major issues are ironed out, you should upload it to the Archives.

or start a competing megawad ;-)

Thx for the goodd feedback guys :) Now i know that i should continue the way im going with this, will start on map02 soon and i will keep the idea of a smaller action packed map.

Nice job, better than my first released map -.- Like jodwin I made a first play map, but did it on HMP cause I'd probably mess up in UV somehow and die (first playthroughs are like that, even on MAP01 type maps ...). Used prboom 2.5.0 ->link

Did it again with skulltag to go 100% on UV, and keep my opinion that it's good. Before you move on there are 2 issues you should fix though. The rocket secret has 2 sectors tagged for the one secret, I assume you made the light sector first then decorated the blue circle ceiling. Then there's this and this type of stuff. It's not big exactly, but if you want a polished product to rival your brothers it's something to keep on top of :P If you need some reference essel has a guide that's posted in the first page of the 1994 project thread. Keep mapping :D

EDIT: btw you can link tinypic pictures directly, take the 'direct link for layouts' line or whatever and just copy/paste it into your post, doomworld will automatically link your pics. Or you can use the 'img' tags to post em directly.

Thx mate, i will take a look at the details in my future of mapping, i doubt i ever will be as good as Erik though, as i don't have the same patience as he has. :)

I wouldn't say that. Your layout shows that you understand flow pretty well, and you can only continue to refine your abilities from here. I think you'll bud into a mighty fine map maker.

Nice. If this is your first map, you have nothing to worry about :) Looking forward to seeing more.

Really nice short map with good flow. Looks nice too :)
I found a few bugs.

You have 2 open sectors which give some odd visuals here and here.
Just check in DB2 for open sectors and you will see what's going on.

And then there is this midtex bleed. This can be fixed if you make one of the 2 sectors the line with the midtex is on a bit lighter or darker than the other (by 1 is sufficient) or make them different height.

I would go for making one of them a bit lighter as that is usually not visible at all if it is just increased by 1.

Keep up the good stuff :)

Thx for the feedback and for pointing the flaws out, when working with Gzdoom and Doombuilder it is hard to find those flaws that will show in Prboom, i will do a bit more testing for my future maps to iron out the small things.

Working on map02 atm, looking good so far.

GZDoom indeed seems to fix these problems by itself.

Now if this is good or bad is something that can be argued, but imo it's not the ideal thing to do. Esp. since stuff like the midtex bleed can be used for nice effects in vanilla and boom maps.

In GZDoom there are other means to do the same, but that is no reason to make some maps not show how they are intended (esp since this stuff also is not in the compat settings as it seems)

So I personally would not use GZDoom for testing maps which are not strictly for GZDoom only or play stuff in it that is not for is specifically for that matter.

EDIT: If you turn off OpenGL rendering it shows the bugs as normal.

You're right, i will start testing the maps in Prboom instead, ran through map01 a few times with Prboom and all the bleeds seems to be fixed now. Thx for the help.

I recorded a demo in PrBoom 2.5.0 at skill 4 with -complevel 2:
http://sharebee.com/79a85bed

I think the blue bottles should not be visible through the wall:


In the demo I was unable to lower the wall which leads to the chaingunners. Is this wad supposed to work with PrBoom?

I dislike the tiny ledges at the edges of hallways, but that is my own preference.

The design is okay and you added lots of nice details. I like what you did with the ceiling lamps and computer terminals in the first room. As already mentioned, good job with varying light levels and floor heights.

The switch that opens the big door in the first room looks out of place, but that is just a nitpick.

Gameplay is good, although I felt there was more ammo than was needed. Even when playing on UV, I rarely expect to see cacos on the first map of a wad. Monster placement was good though, so I can't really complain.

I felt it was a little short and small, and wanted a little more (which is good for you!) If this is map01 of a larger wad, then it is probably just about right.

Overall I did enjoy it, so keep up the good work.

I know there is a lot of bugs when playing with Prboom, i have ironed them out now i think, i just need to upload the newest version.

And it is map01 of a bigger wad, working on map02 atm, i just needed the feedback to see if i were on the right track :)

EDIT: Now the new version is up, all bleed i could find fixed and i could not find anything wrong with the chaingunner trap.

Map02 is completed and added to the wad, take a look if you like.

That was a nice map (although it doesn't work with prboom+...). The non-linearity was good, and the start area was interesting from a pistol start (you had monsters coming from every direction and all you first have is a pistol). :)

Thx :)

Wierd that it won't start with prboom, when starting it with prboom through Doombuilder it works.

Any ideas how to fix it?

It also does not work with Eternity unless I put a new sector in to force a rebuild and then start it out of DB2.

Also you have most of the first map duplicated in the wad, which probably also does not help.

I am no pro when it comes to stuff like this. I reckon someone more knowledgeable about wad merging and nodebuilders should be able to help.

Now for the good :D
The gameplay is very good in this 2nd one as well and flows nicely, really nothing to crit for a map this size as far as I am concerned.

A general tip for editing, you have some overlapping lightcones. Light is additive, so the areas where they overlap should get lighter.

Looking forward to map03 :)

Just had a play through both levels and i thought they were pretty good.

The only two things I would comment on were:

1)big flat stretches of ceiling, mostly due to the choice of CEIL5_1, which can make rooms look a little plain.

2) A few of the windows etc needed to be made impassable so that you don't get stuck and so that monster corpses are not floating in midair.

These are both pretty small things, the levels gameplay was very good. Health and ammo were pretty much spot on. 2 nice, short enjoyable maps.

Look forward to more. :)

Did not work for me in any of these ports:

- Eternity Engine
- PrBoom
- PrBoom+
- Chocolate Doom

Those are all the ports I have installed right now. In each case, the program exited with an error message before I could even begin.

If you are designing strictly for GzDoom, then I am unable to help test at this time. Sorry.

Log of my attempts:

$ eternity -iwad /usr/local/share/games/doom/doom2.wad -file "Last Survivor.wad" -warp 1 -skill 4 -record sr1968-1.lmp
The Eternity Engine
Copyright 2009 James Haley and Stephen McGranahan
http://www.doomworld.com/eternity

This program is free software distributed under the terms of
the GNU General Public License. See the file "COPYING" for
full details. Commercial sale or distribution of this product
without its license, source code, and copyright notices is an
infringement of US and international copyright laws.

Base path set by environment.
M_LoadSysConfig: Loading base/system.cfg
IWAD found: /usr/local/share/games/doom/doom2.wad
DOOM II version

Built on Aug 27 2009 at 14:09:56
M_LoadDefaults: Load system defaults.
W_Init: Init WADfiles.
 adding /home/ken/.eternity/base/doom/eternity.wad
 adding /usr/local/share/games/doom/doom2.wad
 adding Last Survivor.wad

E_ProcessEDF: Loading root file /home/ken/.eternity/base/root.edf
V_InitMisc: Init miscellaneous video patches.
C_Init: Init console.
I_Init: Setting up machine state.
I_InitSound: Configured audio device with 2048 samples/slice.
I_InitMusic: Using SDL_mixer.
D_SetGraphicsMode: Set graphics mode
Segmentation fault



$ prboom -iwad /usr/local/share/games/doom/doom2.wad -file "Last Survivor.wad" -warp 1 -skill 4 -record sr1968-1.lmp

prboom v2.5.0 (http://prboom.sourceforge.net/)
I_SetAffinityMask: manual affinity mask is 1
M_LoadDefaults: Load system defaults.
 default file: /home/ken/.prboom/prboom.cfg
 found /usr/local/share/games/doom/doom2.wad
IWAD found: /usr/local/share/games/doom/doom2.wad
PrBoom (built Jul 15 2009), playing: DOOM 2: Hell on Earth
PrBoom is released under the GNU General Public license v2.0.
You are welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions.
It comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY. See the file COPYING for details.
V_Init: allocate screens.
 found /usr/local/share/games/doom/prboom.wad
D_InitNetGame: Checking for network game.
W_Init: Init WADfiles.
 adding /usr/local/share/games/doom/doom2.wad
 adding /usr/local/share/games/doom/prboom.wad
 adding Last Survivor.wad
W_InitCache

M_Init: Init miscellaneous info.
R_Init: Init DOOM refresh daemon -
R_LoadTrigTables: Endianness...ok.
R_InitData: Textures Flats Sprites
R_Init: R_InitPlanes R_InitLightTables R_InitSkyMap R_InitTranslationsTables R_InitPatches
P_Init: Init Playloop state.
I_Init: Setting up machine state.
I_InitSound:  configured audio device with 1024 samples/slice
I_InitSound: sound module ready
S_Init: Setting up sound.
S_Init: default sfx volume 15
HU_Init: Setting up heads up display.
I_InitGraphics: 640x480
I_UpdateVideoMode: 640x480 (fullscreen)
V_InitMode: using 8 bit video mode
I_SetRes: Using resolution 640x480
I_UpdateVideoMode: 0xe0000000, SDL buffer, direct access
ST_Init: Init status bar.
P_GetNodesVersion: using normal BSP nodes
P_LoadLineDefs: linedef 704 has two-sided flag set, but no second sidedef
P_LoadSubsectors: no subsectors in level
I_ShutdownMusic: removing /tmp/prboom-music-kh5iQ6
I_ShutdownSound:


$ prboom-plus -iwad /usr/local/share/games/doom/doom2.wad -file "Last Survivor.wad" -warp 1 -skill 4 -record sr1968-1.lmp
M_LoadDefaults: Load system defaults.
 default file: /home/ken/.prboom-plus/prboom-plus.cfg
 found /usr/local/share/games/doom/prboom-plus.wad

prboom-plus v2.5.0.3 (http://prboom-plus.sourceforge.net/)
I_SetAffinityMask: manual affinity mask is 1
 found /usr/local/share/games/doom/doom2.wad
IWAD found: /usr/local/share/games/doom/doom2.wad
PrBoom-Plus (built Sep  1 2009), playing: DOOM 2: Hell on Earth
PrBoom-Plus is released under the GNU General Public license v2.0.
You are welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions.
It comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY. See the file COPYING for details.
V_Init: allocate screens.
I_InitScreenResolution: 320x200 (fullscreen)
V_InitMode: using 8 bit video mode
I_CalculateRes: trying to optimise screen pitch
 test case for pitch=640 is processed 5081 times for 100 msec
 test case for pitch=672 is processed 8959 times for 100 msec
 optimised screen pitch is 640
I_InitScreenResolution: Using resolution 640x480
 found /usr/local/share/games/doom/prboom-plus.wad
 found Last Survivor.wad
D_InitNetGame: Checking for network game.
W_Init: Init WADfiles.
 adding /usr/local/share/games/doom/doom2.wad
 adding /usr/local/share/games/doom/prboom-plus.wad
 adding Last Survivor.wad
W_InitCache

M_Init: Init miscellaneous info.
R_Init: Init DOOM refresh daemon -
R_LoadTrigTables: Endianness...ok.
R_InitData: Textures Flats Sprites
R_Init: R_InitPlanes R_InitLightTables R_InitSkyMap R_InitTranslationsTables R_InitPatches
P_Init: Init Playloop state.
I_Init: Setting up machine state.
I_InitSound:  configured audio device with 1024 samples/slice
I_InitSound: sound module ready
S_Init: Setting up sound.
S_Init: default sfx volume 15
HU_Init: Setting up heads up display.
I_InitGraphics: 640x480
I_UpdateVideoMode: 0xe0000000, SDL buffer, direct access
ST_Init: Init status bar.
P_GetNodesVersion: using normal BSP nodes
P_LoadLineDefs: linedef 704 has two-sided flag set, but no second sidedef
P_LoadSubsectors: no subsectors in level
I_ShutdownMusic: removed /tmp/prboom-plus-music-MHZ32W
I_ShutdownSound:


$ chocolate-doom -iwad /usr/local/share/games/doom/doom2.wad -file "Last Survivor.wad" -warp 1 -skill 4 -record sr1968-1.lmp
                         Chocolate Doom 1.2.1
Z_Init: Init zone memory allocation daemon.
zone memory: 0xb6b25008, 1000000 allocated for zone
DEH_Init: Init Dehacked support.
V_Init: allocate screens.
M_LoadDefaults: Load system defaults.
saving config in /home/ken/.chocolate-doom/default.cfg
W_Init: Init WADfiles.
 adding /usr/local/share/games/doom/doom2.wad
 adding Last Survivor.wad
===========================================================================
                         DOOM 2: Hell on Earth
===========================================================================
 Chocolate Doom is free software, covered by the GNU General Public
 License.  There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS
 FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. You are welcome to change and distribute
 copies under certain conditions. See the source for more information.
===========================================================================
M_Init: Init miscellaneous info.
R_Init: Init DOOM refresh daemon - [......................................]
P_Init: Init Playloop state.
I_Init: Setting up machine state.
NET_Init: Initialise network subsystem.
S_Init: Setting up sound.
D_CheckNetGame: Checking network game status.
startskill 3  deathmatch: 0  startmap: 1  startepisode: 1
player 1 of 1 (1 nodes)
Emulating the behavior of the 'Doom 1.9' executable.
HU_Init: Setting up heads up display.
ST_Init: Init status bar.
Segmentation fault