The Gun thread

Anyone own any? I'm currently waiting on my pistol permit to clear so I can buy one of these babies (I'd get a Beretta, but I'll be getting one in time once my military stuff finishes):



The FN Five-SeveN. Every review I've ever heard about has been positive, and it looks like a great CC weapon.

Hopefully, once I move to GLORIOUS TEXAS/ARIZONA, I'll be able to get this for home defense:



Mossberg 590.

You should totally buy a DEAGLE BRAND DEAGLE instead. Make sure they give you the real one too, not that fake one that can hold 12 rounds.

Craigs said:

You should totally buy a DEAGLE BRAND DEAGLE instead. Make sure they give you the real one too, not that fake one that can hold 12 rounds.

AND THEN I CAN GET A MOIST NUGGET AND CALL MAGAZINES CLIPS

FUCK YEAR

You do realize that the 5.7 (outside of the hype) is a pistol the size of a 1911 that shoots a round that is comparable to the .22 WMR? The AP ammunition designed for it is not sold on the commercial market, and in any case no major military power has seen any reason for replacing their 9x19 sidearms with the AP 5.7 (think about it, if body armor is meant to stop 5.56 NATO AP ammunition, would the much weaker 5.7 have any chance?). It also has one of the worst safety placements of any handgun. The Five-Seven is interesting from a technical and historical perspective (as well as the mall-ninja perspective), but I would say it is a pretty poor handgun for CC.

You would be happier if you bought a Beretta (the 92, I assume), as the ammunition is much more readily available and cheaper. Also 9x19 has some good defensive loads, which the 5.7 does not (IIRC it is only available in FMJ or a "Ballistic Tip" best suited for small game hunting). Of course, if you are really serious about CC I would get a more compact gun. Still, the Beretta 92 is whole worlds more practical than the Five-Seven.

The Mossberg 590 is a good shotgun. Where do you live that you can buy a Five-Seven but not a 590, I can't recall any states that heavily regulate shotguns off the top of my head. One tip though, the 590 is basically a Mossberg 500 that uses a different method of mounting the barrel (circular ring that slides over the magazine tube, vs the 500 having a cap that screws into the end of the tube), and a bayonet lug. You can buy a 500 for quite a bit less than the 590, and it functions exactly the same.

As for my collection, I have:

Auto-5 (12 gauge)
870 (20 gauge)
Marlin and TC .22 Rifles
Ruger Mk. III (.22)
FAL .308
A pair of S&W .357s
Argentine Hi-Power clone (9x19)

If you look at my posts in blogs I think I have posted pictures of all but the Hi-Power.

I wonder how long it will take for BBG to find this thread.

One of these days, I'd love to own a revolver. Even if it's only a .22. Lord knows there's no way I'd ever be able to handle a S&W 500 or a Taurus Raging Bull (plus I bet it'd be extremely difficult and expensive to buy .50 or .454 on the civilian market).

I'm surprised bbg hasn't posted yet.

it's VERY hard to legally have a gun in the UK. only live guns i have ever seen are weak rifles/shotguns for clay pidgeon shooting, and automatics on guards in the houses of parliament. most other police hardly ever have weapons here.

the UK is pretty quiet when it comes to guns. gangs use knives instead. we hardly even get knife problems where i live in the uk (Dorset).

if we WERE allowed guns, i got a license and could choose any gun i wanted, id probably get a beretta 92 (i think thats the pistol in doom, correct me if im wrong).

I feel much safer where I am because gun ownership is so heavily restricted. Less guns means less idiots owning guns.

Dr. Zin said:

You do realize that the 5.7 (outside of the hype) is a pistol the size of a 1911 that shoots a round that is comparable to the .22 WMR? The AP ammunition designed for it is not sold on the commercial market, and in any case no major military power has seen any reason for replacing their 9x19 sidearms with the AP 5.7 (think about it, if body armor is meant to stop 5.56 NATO AP ammunition, would the much weaker 5.7 have any chance?). It also has one of the worst safety placements of any handgun. The Five-Seven is interesting from a technical and historical perspective (as well as the mall-ninja perspective), but I would say it is a pretty poor handgun for CC.

I'm looking for something that is going to hold a lot of bullets. The 5-7 seems to work out pretty good for that.

If he 5-7 turns out to be a bad choice, I'd probably get a Browning Hi-Power. That thing rules.

Graf Zahl said:

I feel much safer where I am because gun ownership is so heavily restricted. Less guns means less idiots owning guns.

Enjoy being unable to defend yourself when attacked.

In before BBG

Graf Zahl said:

I feel much safer where I am because gun ownership is so heavily restricted. Less guns means less idiots owning guns.

I'm more worried about idiots operating motor vehicles myself. Carry permits in most states are very tightly regulated (they require certified training and law enforement approval), and ranges are highly supervised. Idiots generally get kicked out very quickly. I shoot semi-regularly and have never felt like I am in a dangerous situation. I have been nearly killed by morons while driving several times.

Mr. Freeze said:

I'm looking for something that is going to hold a lot of bullets. The 5-7 seems to work out pretty good for that.

If he 5-7 turns out to be a bad choice, I'd probably get a Browning Hi-Power. That thing rules.

Capacity is a pretty poor reason to choose a handgun. Besides, there are pistols such as the Glock 17, Springfield ** and S&W M&P with capacities in the high teens in 9x19. Generally the cheif priority of a handgun is its ergonomics; if you can't hit a damn thing then the number of rounds you have is irrelevant.

I don't own an FN produced Hi-Power, but as I listed above I do have an FM (Argentine licensed) HP. They are a very classy gun, but the FN (Browning) models are very expensive. If you can afford it, though, it is a good choice.

Mr. Freeze said:

Enjoy being unable to defend yourself when attacked.

You're going to carry a handgun or shotgun to the shops? Cinema? In your car? Next to the bed?

Mr.Freeze with a gun? Now why don't I feel safe?

Khorus said:

Next to the bed?

In his jammies, next to the balls.

Mr. Freeze said:

Enjoy being unable to defend yourself when attacked.

Thank god I don't have to worry about that. It's quite simple: There's almost no guns around here so there's almost no gun related violence, especially in more rural areas.

I can't recall being attacked at all... ever. I mean, I've been in fights. But "attacked"? Never.

I don't have guns, and I'm proud of it.

Mr. Freeze said:

home defense

LoL.

The only gun I own is the one that the guy on the right is pointing.

I don't have any guns now, but I used to own a custom .357 for my work and was friends with a guy who was in love with his .44's. I never really liked rifles or shotguns, more of a handgun kind of person.

I have a fairly good sized penis.

I find it pointless that tons of people (mostly Americans, who have the right to bare arms, nothing against you.) think its intresting to own a gun. I find that they do it to look tough, or powerful and their excuse for it is "home defense".

Like Jodwin, I think gun collecting is a joke. Its the equvillant as owning a bunch of Samurai swords and thinking your cool for it.

Mr. Freeze said:

Enjoy being unable to defend yourself when attacked.

LOL. If you think that being in a place that owning a gun is legal makes you more safe, your are sadly mistaken. Where I live, we do not permit gun ownership and are ranked the 3rd (4th?) safest city in Canada. You WONT get attacked if no one has guns. Mainly by the idiots that think its cool.

And if someone breaks into your house suddenly, and tries to kill you, you REALLY think you have enough time to make a dash to your gun. Unless you have it on your lap 24/7 I dont see the use.

Danarchy said:

I have a fairly good sized penis.

I have an extremely small penis but a big gun which balances things out.

High guns per capita != high gun crime. Look at Switzerland.

It's culture that breeds violence, not access to guns.

I'd like to own a gun in case shit really hits the fan. I don't live in a bad neighborhood anymore, so there's no immediate need for one, but in the event of zombies/martial law/nuclear war/demonic invasion, I want to be ready.

Patrick said:

I'd like to own a gun in case shit really hits the fan. I don't live in a bad neighborhood anymore, so there's no immediate need for one, but in the event of zombies/martial law/nuclear war/demonic invasion, I want to be ready.

*high five*

...

Thank god I don't have to worry about that. It's quite simple: There's almost no guns around here so there's almost no gun related violence, especially in more rural areas.

This sums it up well. I actually thought the whole concept of "home defense" was a joke the first time I heard about it.

Enjoy being unable to defend yourself when attacked.

In a country with guns, any kid can pull the trigger and kill anybody. In a country without guns, physical strength and combat training prevails, with much less risk for fatal injuries. I guess I can see your point if you're a 5 feet 120 lb guy, but personally I'd rather stick to the countries where I can safely walk everywhere without fearing for my life so much I'd actually have to carry a gun...

In the entire 18 year length of my life I've not yet met one single person who I thought truly deserved to die. I really don't expect to see any one in the near future. And even if I do I don't want to be the one that distributes the favor.

avery1555 said:

I find it pointless that tons of people (mostly Americans, who have the right to bare arms, nothing against you.) think its intresting to own a gun. I find that they do it to look tough, or powerful and their excuse for it is "home defense".

Like Jodwin, I think gun collecting is a joke. Its the equvillant as owning a bunch of Samurai swords and thinking your cool for it.

It's very easy to be condescending to people you've never met, isn't it?

The term "mall-ninja" is a popular term among shooting hobbyists to describe those people who buy guns for there own personal aggrandizement. There are those of use who enjoy shooting as a hobby, or collect because we are interested in the technological and historical significance of firearms. Would you mock someone who collects antique coins, or someone who searches for first editions of books in the same way?

Just because the media loves to find the blathering moron who will babble about "THIS HERE GUN WILL BLOW YER HEAD CLEAN OFF" doesn't mean that said person is representative of the American shooting public as a whole. For every testosterone poisoned idiot on a power trip there are about a couple of dozen shooters who go about their hobby in a normal, reasonable manner. For those of us who remember the controversy over violent video games in the late 1990s, do you feel that the gaming community is made up of the mentally ill individuals dragged on television news shows to show how deranged gamers were?

I own a 1964 produced Smith and Wesson Model 28 .357 magnum revolver. It is a showcase of expertise of American metal machining. It also was a top of the line revolver used by some police forces in the US at that time. Finally, it is a joy to shoot; capable of putting a cylinder into a playing card at 25 yards if the shooter is up to it. Good shooting is not the simple task it is portrayed as in the media. To be a truely profficient shot requires dedication. One has to practice grips and stances, breath control; learn how to use isotonic muscle tension to steady a handgun or rifle. The pursuit of shooting mastery is a discipline just as valid as equestrian riding, the throwing events, or any other sport that requires the familiarity of an object or tool.

Graf Zahl said:

Thank god I don't have to worry about that. It's quite simple: There's almost no guns around here so there's almost no gun related violence, especially in more rural areas.

There is actually almost no violence in rural areas in most of the US, also. It is mostly concentrated in poor urban districts and the surrounding areas. Criminal violence is not a factor the availability of weapons, it is based on income disparity and the lack of a social safety net. I live near Chicago, and recently there have been several instances of gangmembers beating each other to death, along with a particularly horrifying instance of a bystander having his skull crushed with a railroad tie.

Most gun violence in the US is actually between criminals engaged in drug trafficing and distribution. There is obscene amounts of money flowing through this black market, and (primarily at the street level) there are clashes over territory and raids. The typical crime involving a firearm in the US would be drug dealers trying to expand onto another gang's turf, or raiding another dealer's house for their stash of product or money. Since the injured parties have no recourse with the justice system they retaliate with more violence.

There seems to be an impression among some foreign members of this board that the streets of America resemble some kind of warzone. Nothing could be further from the truth. Violence is primarily confined to "inner city" areas, i.e. low income urban areas. Most European countries provide at least some form of subsidy or employment assistance to low-income individuals. Moreso, the minimum wage in most European countries is generous enough that even those people working at the lowest level have enough money to sustain themselves.

In America, on the other hand, those living on the minimum wage have difficulty just paying for housing and getting food on the table; much less other things such as education. Add in the fact that at this time health insurance is not required to be provided by the employer or government and costs have skyrocketed, and living on minimum wage is unsustainable. Thus many poor Americans turn to crime, usually the lucrative drug trade, to provide for themselves. As I explained above, the drug trade propogates firearms violence.

Ironically, the rural areas where violent crime is a rarity are also the areas with the highest concentration of gun owners. A coincidence, rather than a cause though.

kristus said:

I can't recall being attacked at all... ever. I mean, I've been in fights. But "attacked"? Never.

I keep no firearms ready for self defense. However, A friend of mine is in the process of buying a gun for self protection. She is doing this because of a near sexual assault she had. The irony is that this attack actually happened while she was studing abroad in a town in the south of France.

The town had a local (IIRC) cheese festival one day. When she was walking home later that night she noticed someone was following her, but didn't think much of it. When she was a few blocks from the festival the man came up behind her, covered her mouth, and tried to force himself on her. She was able to wrestle herself out of his grasp and sprint to the apartment she was renting, where she locked herself in. Even though she knows that the chances of another attack are slim, she would rather at least have the opportunity to defend herself. I certainly can't fault her for it.

Phml said:

In a country with guns, any kid can pull the trigger and kill anybody. In a country without guns, physical strength and combat training prevails, with much less risk for fatal injuries. I guess I can see your point if you're a 5 feet 120 lb guy, but personally I'd rather stick to the countries where I can safely walk everywhere without fearing for my life so much I'd actually have to carry a gun...

I think in most countries, there is at least one section of a major urban center that is the type of place that non-residents do not enter after dark.

Yes, "any kid can pull the trigger", but I would say that the same is true for someone of physical prowess or training. I must reference a murder that occured in the town that I live in. There was a scuffle among some idiots in their teens at a party. A fellow in his mid twenties tried to break up the fight, when one of them clobbered him on the back of the head with a glass bottle. He was stone dead. IIRC while the use of firearms in violence is higher in the US than most other countries, firearms are still used in only a fraction of murders. So the rates of people killing each other with clubs, and knives, and fists is still higher than that of other countries. Like I said, it isn't the availability of weapons, it is the (sub) cultural influences.

In the unlikely event that someone breaks into our house (that is, gets over our tall concrete wall and past our guard dog and then somehow through our windows or forcing their way into our doors...good luck on ALL of these), they would still have to contend with me and the fact that I know my own home far better than they do, and can move around it in complete darkness whereas they have no idea where the hell they are or what they're doing. Even unarmed, I would still take them down immediately. I have no need for guns for protection of my home. I see guns as a sport of sorts; shooting a target or a game animal perhaps (I don't do this though). I've never turned one on a human before and now I likely never will; even when I carried one for work I never actually had to use it (I'm intimidating enough without one). I'm no sharpshooter but I'm certainly a damn good shot with a handgun. Though I will admit to the fact that I have taken human life before (in self defense), it was fortunately not with a gun.

"I fear no man and I am unarmed."

Its one thing to have the gun while being attacked, its another thing to have the balls to pull the trigger, good luck with your "self defense".

Danarchy said:

I have a fairly good sized penis.

"This is my rifle this is my gun, this if for war and this is for fun!"

Dr. Zin said:

I keep no firearms ready for self defense. However, A friend of mine is in the process of buying a gun for self protection. She is doing this because of a near sexual assault she had. The irony is that this attack actually happened while she was studing abroad in a town in the south of France.

The town had a local (IIRC) cheese festival one day. When she was walking home later that night she noticed someone was following her, but didn't think much of it. When she was a few blocks from the festival the man came up behind her, covered her mouth, and tried to force himself on her. She was able to wrestle herself out of his grasp and sprint to the apartment she was renting, where she locked herself in. Even though she knows that the chances of another attack are slim, she would rather at least have the opportunity to defend herself. I certainly can't fault her for it.

While I don't intend to sound callous, most rapists are out for easy marks. Resisting is usually the best course of action. And while I don't mind if someone "puts a cap in" a rapist. Gun fights tend to not work out quite like that. Your friend would do better with a close combat weapon, such as a small knife.