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Enjay

MAP08 Tricks and Traps - Cybie Versus Barons

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You know the room; the one with the yellow skull. When you go in there are a bunch of barons with their backs to you and a cyberdemon facing you. If you decide to do it by infighting, you let the cybie fire a volley of rockets at you, these hit the barons and then you can just sit back as the cybie and the barons duke it out. Eventually the cyberdemon dies and you polish off the last few barons and collect the key.

Now, I have played this level hundreds of times and most times I do just sit there and wait for the fight to finish before I get involved. Every time I have done so, the cyberdemon has lost and I have a small handful of barons to deal with myself. Not today. The cyberdemon won! As the fight was finishing, I began to realise that there were just 3, then 2 and then only 1 baron left. I was actually cheering the cyberdemon on. Of course, once the barons were gone, I had to deal with the cybie myself and a single shot did it but, whatever - the cybie won and I've never seen that before.

To me this seems to be a very rare occurrence so I'm wondering if anyone else has seen the cyberdemon win this battle. I was playing it with GZdoom and I know that doing so may have a slight impact on things but I normally play with Zdoom or GZdoom so it's not really a huge factor when I compare it to my usual experience. I've seen spidey/cybie battles go either way plenty of times but not the map08 baron/cybie fight.

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This happened to me once using Doom2.exe back in the day...I've never been able to make it happen again. Just a strange fluke I suppose.

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I once had to deal with about half of those barons because three or four of them cornered the cybie and clawed him non-stop.

It almost made ammo tight on that level... almost.

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I saw him win once. After he destroyed the last Baron and turned on me, I killed him with a single shotgun blast. It was pretty amusing. :D

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Snakes said:

I once had to deal with about half of those barons because three or four of them cornered the cybie and clawed him non-stop.

Yeah, I've had similar things happen a few times, where I ended up with a lot of the Barons still standing. I've never seen the Cyberdemon actually win before, though.

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what I always do is grab the invulnerability , squeeze past the barons on the left side, grab the key, hit the switch and get out.

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When I play the PSX version of the level the baron's and occasionally the cybie always seem to teleport out of the room and mess up the battle. It sucks, because you get some stray baron's to scoop up after the battle and when the cybie teleports into the main room, it can be a pain to take him down with such little space.

On playing the PSX version, it is usually 50/50 when the battle doesn't get messed up, so it makes the battle interesting. But I'm not sure if the PSX version has different monster behavior (i.e. less hit points, monster paths) so it may screw with the decision.

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I've seen cyber demon win, even when I don't do anything. It usually happens if the barons flow out following me. Kind of like turning 20 vs 1 into 17 vs 1

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I guess it depends on how many barons he pisses off at a time. It's a lot easier for the cyberdemon to kill one Hell Baron at a time when there aren't 3 of them already fisting him in the ass causing his pain state to interrupt his volley of rockets.

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It depends on a lot of factors:

  1. Random damage amounts
  2. Random attack chances
  3. Random movement directions
  4. How many Barons hit the monster teleport lines
  5. How often Cybie gets pinned and is unable to move (related to #3)

Doom is a very random game for a first-person shooter. I've seen many types of big fights like this go both ways.

Now what I wanna know is, has anybody ever had the Cyberdemon on E2M8 finished off by the errant bite of a Lost Soul? ;)

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Quasar said:

Now what I wanna know is, has anybody ever had the Cyberdemon on E2M8 finished off by the errant bite of a Lost Soul? ;)

Pretty sure that's happened to me at least once, and I know I've seen it in a demo. (I also saw the Spiderdemon in E3M8 killed off by a single Cacodemon on UV -fast or Nightmare. Stupid spider kept firing into the wall and missing the Caco, while the Caco hovered there blasting away at it.)

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Dragonsbrethren said:

Pretty sure that's happened to me at least once, and I know I've seen it in a demo. (I also saw the Spiderdemon in E3M8 killed off by a single Cacodemon on UV -fast or Nightmare. Stupid spider kept firing into the wall and missing the Caco, while the Caco hovered there blasting away at it.)

Infighting is the only way to finish E3M8 on pacifist ;) I've seen the demos of it, they're quite impressive.

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Quasar said:

Doom is a very random game for a first-person shooter.


It's funny you say that because despite all those random values, doom is still relatively predictable. Never 100% but pretty close.

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Heh, speaking of that, I decided to load up map08 and try to get the Cyberdemon to win. It actually won on my first try; I just paid attention to when the last Baron it was firing at was going to die and made sure I was in a position where it would only wake up one or two at a time. That worked great, but I didn't think to record a demo. The second time I tried the same thing, and nearly every Baron jumped on it and killed it in seconds.

I did record this on my third attempt. The second to last Baron (one teleported out of the room and never came back in) and Cyber die at the same time.

Edit: Here's one of it winning. Not sure if this counts or not though, since it did teleport out of the room and I had to let it back in to finish off the last few Barons.

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Quasar said:

Now what I wanna know is, has anybody ever had the Cyberdemon on E2M8 finished off by the errant bite of a Lost Soul? ;)


That happen to me once...except the Cyber killed me before this one lone Lost soul attack it once and the Cyber died.

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I've seen a cyb killed by a single zombieman shot before.

On MAP08, I discovered that firing a shot as soon as you enter the room, most of the barons get set off except the one on the very far corner closest to you (most of the floor gives you some lee-way, you can keep firing off shots and he won't wake until to get close to him and do it)

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Has there ever been a time when both sides end up killing each other? In other words, have you gone back into the room after the noise stops, only to find nothing alive?

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I see the cyber win most of the times, because I strafe in the proper directions to "help" him aim in the better angles to the barons.
It's pretty fun when he reaches the teleport.

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Doesn't the cyberdemon always win on easier settings? Or is that the PSX nostalgia creeping up on me again.

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I just played it. Cyberdemon won on easy in the X-Box port.

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Kaiser said:

So what about the Spider Mastermind VS. the Cyberdemon in Map20?

Usually the cybie wins but it isn't a huge majority of the times. I have another test map with a similar layout which I have played a lot more and I'd estimate that the cybie wins a little over 60% of the time in that.

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I think Quasar pretty much summed it up, but I do think skill level has an influence on the outcome.

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geo said:

I just played it. Cyberdemon won on easy in the X-Box port.


Doom 2 is out for xbox now?

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Played it on Ultra-Violence just a bit ago, and the Barons won with only like 3 or 4 left. Usually I see about half of the Barons survive when I play Hurt Me Plenty.

Surprisingly the level isn't that hard on Ultra-Violence when starting off with a pistol.

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