Welcome to North Korea

Eponasoft said:

Japan and the USA have a 100 year "contract" of sorts that grants Japan military protection in case they are even assaulted with a nuclear attack. . . As an aside, this contract also states that Japan may not initiate an act of war against any other country in the world for the duration of the agreement.

Are you referring to this treaty? It's a product of the Cold War and AFAIK still in force.

Well, that's certainly not what the treaty above says. It just says they're best friends in matters of defense until they decide they're not.

Fun fact: Japanese navy ships still fly the flag they had in WWII. Man, does it ever look cool!

And the Germans still award Iron Crosses.

The Germans have been awarding Iron Crosses since the beginning of the empire.

That really wasn't very long ago. Their empire didn't last long at all.

GreyGhost said:

Are you referring to this treaty? It's a product of the Cold War and AFAIK still in force.

Yes, that is the final version of the treaty and the one that is currently in effect. There were earlier versions as well. I don't see anything about the 100 year clause on it though; that might have been removed in favor of an open time period (that's not uncommon, and it looks like that's what happened) or it's possible that there are intentional omissions/modifications for the website (which also looks likely since I also don't see any strong anti-aggression conditions, which were present in earlier versions of the treaty).

I thought that one only lasted 10 years: Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States and Japan

edit: no idea why vbulletin puts a break in that url

As a rule, things on wikipedia relating to past or current government issues are not always to be taken at face value. I can't tell you how many things on wikipedia I've had to correct (and give sources for as well) over the years...

You aren't supposed to take anything at face value unless it provides immediate sources or you already know it. Throwing a "generally, the Wikipedia isn't trustworthy" when you think it might be contradicting what you think is right, but haven't really checked what it's saying, is silly. The Wikipedia has the disadvantage, over some established publications, that it might lack editor oversight in some places, but on the other hand, the tendency to show sources in a more immediate way than most publications, which makes it more transparent. Fact checking is easier. You can more easily see what's wrong with it. It even says this in one's face, as sections or articles that are lacking in some way have generally already been tagged with a disclaimer and editing suggestion by some editor.

The article is about the treaty linked to above, and it does not say it lasted ten years. What lasted roughly ten years was the period between the lifting of the formal military occupation of Japan and the signing of the treaty (which seems to have been spanned by a previous treaty.)

Essentially, Japan is still an occupied country. Thus the US is likely to take any military action against it as if it were against itself. The formal conditions are given for Japan to end that, but in a practical sense it must be really hard to become militarily independent in such a situation. They would have to push the US out of a strategically convenient position, build and sustain their own sufficient forces, forgo certain benefits and require different political alliances.

Super Jamie said:
edit: no idea why vbulletin puts a break in that url

Yeah, weird. It must be some limit. The [wp] tag does the job :p

I'm very sorry for the bump, but I couldn't just ignore this one.

The North Korean government has just banned nearly all monetary transactions within its borders. And I thought the country already went off the deep end.

Yeah I saw that too. I wonder what spin the poor North Koreans are being told by their government? Probably that the Global Financial Crisis has hit harder in places, and other countries will are both praising and will follow the example set by the Dear Leader Kim Jong-Il to bring the world's finances in order.

Danarchy said:

Germans

Danarchy said:

empire

LOL

Mr. Freeze said:

LOL

How about you go back to European History 101.

Wait, you mean the Holy Roman Empire wasn't centered in Rome? You're crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Being a Korean-American and having grandparents who had to live through the Korean War, with one relative (my gramps brother) who is in NK - alive or dead we don't know - all I have to say is that kim jong-il is absolutely evil and I hope the country falls ASAP. How this is going to happen, no idea but I hope it happens soon.

Most South Koreans today don't really give a rat's ass. They're very comfortable living in a developed/ing country. Economically they're lagging behind Japan by only a little. Reunification will have huge consequences on the wealth of South Koreans (for the few that have it) that few really want to see it happen. Reunification is really more of a nice idea that they hope happens in the future.

Prison concentration camps, government murder, execution, experimentation, rape, etc. The man needs to be taken down but there is no voice large enough for the NK citizens.

Some of South Korea's more authoritarian crap (register with ID to post online...) needs to go even if the people want it. Democracy sucks sometimes. Still, SK is infinitely better than most countries. May it live on! (Well, may most of their product design and none of their software design live on, but that's a different topic.)

NK's government news still doesn't have any kind of story about this.

Well, hey, at least you can now get North Korean designer jeans.

Nomad said:

...Infringing on basic human rights has nothing to do with culture relativity.

Ah, but didn't you read? Korea is not infringing on 'human rights;' the US is!

rf` said:

Ah, but didn't you read? Korea is not infringing on 'human rights;' the US is!

This sort of "holier than thou" attitude (and actions) are nothing new for the US. Neither are the labels "global self-proclaimed sheriffs" or "world gendarmerie", and I assure you it's not just NK that labels them like that, but it's also a common sentiment in many NATO countries (regardless of official policy). NK is not even unique in officially speaking out of its teeth (Ugo Chavez and the Soviets, in the past, openly criticized the US).

Maes said:

This sort of "holier than thou" attitude (and actions) are nothing new for the US. Neither are the labels "global self-proclaimed sheriffs" or "world gendarmerie", and I assure you it's not just NK that labels them like that, but it's also a common sentiment in many NATO countries (regardless of official policy). NK is not even unique in officially speaking out of its teeth (Ugo Chavez and the Soviets, in the past, openly criticized the US).

This is true and I don't doubt it for a second, but its still a 'wtf' coming from Kim Jong who has committed worse atrocities to his own people.

rf` said:

This is true and I don't doubt it for a second, but its still a 'wtf' coming from Kim Jong who has committed worse atrocities to his own people.

"Let the one without sin cast the first stone." -Jesus Christ

North Korea is the last great totalitarian state in the traditional sense, complete with a grotesque personality cult that surpasses that of both Hitler and Stalin. Where as Hitler and Stalin were shown as superhuman, the people of North Korea are told that their leaders are Godlike. It's ironic that a country which originally took it's inspiration from Marx, who advocated atheism, would abandon that in favour of forging such a grotesque abuse of brainwashing.

I know some people will say it's the same in the West, that we are told what to believe in and so on but really it isn't. In North Korea one single idea prevails, and if you do not conform either through fear or genuine belief in the system you will die for it. There's no room for any individuality in North Korea, everyone has to wear a badge with the Glorious leader's face on their person. It truly is an Orwellian nightmare.

North Korea's isolation is the key to the hold which it has on it's populace. I for one believe North Korea will never be free for decades to come, and maybe never will be for longer still - Stalin, Mao and Hitler's personality cults did not last as many DECADES as has North Korea's has, and one cannot simply turn up one day and tell the populace "everything you believe in was a LIE". Even if that were the case most of the population would still believe in it. The only people who have any idea about the truth are those have access to outside information, and they are almost exclusively those working on the inside of the Government.

I like North Korea because it's the closest thing we'll see to a long practiced eugenics plan. Elderly and disabled people are hidden away and maybe even killed for all we know.

Technician said:

Elderly and disabled people are hidden away and maybe even killed for all we know.

Only when they are unable to keep their goose-stepping pace.

Snakes said:

Wait, you mean the Holy Roman Empire wasn't centered in Rome? You're crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you mean the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation - no, it wasn't.

I was actually referring to the German Empire of the late 19th/early 20th century, where the Iron Cross was widely used (though it was originally a Prussian symbol). But yes, the Holy Roman Empire was also German.

Ultimately, my point is that it is NOT a Nazi symbol, and thus the reason they still award it.

The Swastika is not a Nazi symbol either, it has over 3000 years of history as a Hindi/Buddhist religious or good luck symbol.

Still, you won't find it anywhere even remotely Westernised without the stigma of Hitler's holocaust attached to it, except for Finland's Air Force.

Ah, forgot about that period. Proof that I don't know much about German military decorations. Still, that gives them multiple empires, and so LOL need not apply to German Empire. Word.

Super Jamie said:

The Swastika is not a Nazi symbol either, it has over 3000 years of history as a Hindi/Buddhist religious or good luck symbol.

Still, you won't find it anywhere even remotely Westernised without the stigma of Hitler's holocaust attached to it, except for Finland's Air Force.

The Raelians (bizarre religion started by some bloke who wrote about UFO's and stuff... see even that idea's not original!) also used a swastika-in-a-star icon up til WW2, then turned it into a swirl, but i think they recently reverted.

I think the point is the Iron Cross is a symbol of the German military, so clearly they would still be using it (actually in WW2 they used a different version painted on thier aircraft and tanks, it was straight-sided rather than curving out) but the Swastika was taken by Hitler and made into the symbol of modern Germany (at the time), in a period that modern Germans (now) would rather forget.